Top 10 Cities to Avoid with a Translocation

I like my OB. He is kind and a little doughy and he sighs a lot as we talk about my Troubles. At Monday's appointment he asked how I was doing and I told him I was still spotting, a little, but nothing alarming. He then stared at my chart until I got uncomfortable with the lengthening silence and told him I didn't want to do this anymore. Miscarry, I meant. He agreed and then fooled around with his pen. Silence apparently drives me mad, so I plunged into all of my theories: test the sperm, centrifuge the sperm, drive my eggs out by twos and threes, the works. He agreed that someone is most likely doing something somewhere that could help us, and apologized that it was not he. He said that REs are all about IVF right now and that what I needed was a university setting, someplace research focussed. Minneapolis, he confessed, was not the place to be. I told him that we have some resources at our disposal and that I have no problem going to the Seychelles Islands (actually, seriously, I would love to go to the Seychelles- their major export is cinnamon and their major import is beer) if it can preempt another miscarriage or three. We put together the following plan: he is going to call the local RE and the ditto urologist for whom he has the most respect and ask them who and what they would recommend. If he hasn't called me in a week I am supposed to call him, which will no doubt be the case.

Let's talk about what an ass Steve is being about this. On Saturday I discovered that an infertility clinic in DC is offering a Shared Risk program for IVF with PGD. For $24,000 you get four cycles and if you do not have a baby at the end of it they will return your money. I thought this sounded pretty good, so I fluttered down into the basement where Steve is putting in ductwork and asked, "Would you pay $24,000 for another baby?"

"No," Steve responded.

NO?

"No, we can have another child for free."

OK, so I didn't respond properly. Perhaps I should have said something like, "I see I have caught you off-guard, moon of my delight, why don't we discuss this further over dinner tonight? Love you, baby." What I actually said was, "How dare you, you selfish motherfucker!" I went on, over the course of many hours during which I couldn't quite decide if I wasn't speaking to him or I should continue to violently berate him and therefore did both at intervals, to point out that I wasn't entirely sure it was any of his business. I mean, I think seven tries at doing things his way with only marginal success are plenty, don't you? I don't know that I am ready to go the IVF route personally but I hardly think that he is the person to issue the veto. And it's not the fact that he carries the translocation, if that is what you are thinking. That is a non-issue and it could just as easily be me. What burns me is that he is the one insisting on his own biological child. He's adopted and I think that plays heavily into things, but Christ! Cut me some slack here. Not only does he want a child AND its genes have to be part of a matched set AND I am the one doing all the heavy work BUT he thinks in-vitro is too much effort, expense, etc? Bite me.

You'll be happy to know that we eventually made up and everything is kisses and chocolate again. We agreed that the next thing to do is to figure out just how much of his sperm is lethal and work from there. We also agreed that he behaved poorly in the first place.

Although in theory Dr. Doughboy is researching this for me, I spent Tuesday calling every place in the Twin Cities that I could think of who might do genetic analyses of sperm. Silly me, I was originally trying to find a lab that would work with our insurance. Then I was just trying to find a lab that did this at all. Struck out with all four possibilities here. Struck out at in Rochester. Struck out in Chicago. Finally swapped emails with a guy in Maryland and he cheerfully agreed to test that sample, via FedEx for $1500. At this point I had actually chewed a small hole in the corner of the phone (I think during my conversation with Minnesota in which the woman kept saying "You are talking about PGD" and I kept saying "No, I am not. I am talking about a genetic analysis to determine the proportion of abnormal gametes per ejaculate") and decided to call it a day.

Today's project is to find a primary care provider for Steve whose expression on the clinic Bio page is either so sharp or so vacuous that they will understand the need for ordering this test (thus enabling my insurance company to pick up their share) or, failing understanding, will agreeably put their 'X' or smiley face where appropriate.

And I am sorry for blowing the whole Steve Is Good myth wide-open, but the truth must out. Steve Is Annoying.

Comments

[Elaina]

Julia, your response to Steve was perfect! I am, of course, completely on your side in the argument and think that you behaved like a saint compared to him. I'm also glad that you made up, but it's much more fun to focus on the bad stuff.

I cannot begin to imagine your frustration in dealing with the people over the phone. With all of the strong emotions you have involved in this, plus all of the research that you have done, I think it would be inevitable that you would burst out with something like, "I'm sorry, you must be incredibly stupid so I'll talk much slower for you so that you can understand. G-e-n-e-t-i-c A-n-a-l-y-s-i-s. Did you get that?" Then she responds with, "You mean PGD?" So you understandably say, "Fuck you. Goodbye"

Good luck finding a doctor that will sign off on stuff for Steve. I'd hate to be the one explaining the situation to him. Will Steve step up for that or is it left in your hands? Either way, hope it goes well.

-- Elaina

[Laura]

Okay...

First of all, there is a clinic in Chicago that does PGD, so one would think they are also able to do that other mumbo jumbo. I will find out who the dr. is - I have to call my RE's office soon, anyway, and schedule an appt. for April - I'll see what i can find out.

Secondly, $24,000 doesn't sound that bad - that's including the fees for PGD? Of course, I'm thinking here that if one did 4 cycles it averages out to be $6,000 a hit and then the money-back guarantee is nice...then again if you only did one you are paying the whole amount, but you could think of it in 2 ways: 1. It's not too far off from the price of adoption (probably cheaper, all told), and 2. The 'extra' money would go towards helping other people get pregnant, and once you're pregnant, who gives a crap about how much it cost to get there? I remember your analogy on Linda's board one time - not wanting to pay much for baby clothes but at the same time not blinking when someone talks about IVF and $500 here, $1000 there. Of course I am completely paraphrasing you, but I remember thinking how true it is! Is the place in DC that Shady Grove one that Mr. Inciid. works at? What about St. Barnabus in NJ? I hear the inciid ladies talking about that program all the time, too.

I'd love to go on, but I've gotta go pick up the little munchkinette.

Take care - happy pondering (ha ha),

Laura

[Julie]

Excellent effort, but I'm not convinced you posed the question correctly to Steve. Ideally, you would have given him two choices, one obviously more desirable than the other.

Example: "Steve, would you like to pay $24,000 so that we can have a child without elevated risk of yet another goddamn miscarriage, or would you like me to garrote you stealthily as you sleep, ninja-style?"

I am full of good advice and gratitude for your excellent, excellent blog.

[Jen]

Hi, Julia,

I'm so sorry that Steve is being rather stubborn about pursuing other options (aside from continuing to harpoon you--sorry, that's what Dr. Hottie calls it! :)). I love your response to him--I don't mean to laugh at your predicament, but that's totally something I'd say to Chris (although my term of endearment for him is dickhead).

I'm equally sorry that you've not had much luck finding any help from the medical world...I asked my friend who has a balanced translocation issue (female--she's had 5 m/c and is now PG from a DE IVF cycle) what she recommends. I hope you don't mind, but I figured it would maybe help to get her opinion.

She recommends you contact RGI in Chicago or St. Barnabas in NJ. They both offer PGD for balance
translocations and maybe they have other ideas too. She also thinks that if you are not doing IVF there really is nothing anyone can do. You just have to roll the dice. She met with a genetic counselor and they researched the translocation and give her info on it (I assume you've also done this). She didn't think it
was very useful because if it is not a common translocation they don't know that much about it.

Anyway, I hope you're doing ok. Give Steve a glare for me. ;)

Jen

[Summer]

From Summer: You're not alone in the Husband is Annoying club, but more on that later. I'm glad that you're starting to investigate just what modern science can do to help you. You've already done it the old fashioned way quite exhaustively, so now you just need to find someone who wants to turn you into a journal article. The DC area seems like a good place to look, since we're teeming with universities, NIH, and loads of for-profit RE places feeding off the many infertile but dual-incomed couples in the area. So should you come here for treatment, and should you ever find your mother's company wearisome, you'd always have a haven on Jackson Street for tea and sympathy (or snarkiness, whichever appeals) and Olga-kisses.

So, wanna hear about how my husband is annoying? We've had yet another illness outbreak here, stomach flu #2. Dorian and I got sick on Saturday night, and Vince took care of the miraculously-recovered Dorian on Sunday while I languished in bed. I made him note that it was thoughtful of me to get sick on the weekend, so he didn't have to juggle office and baby. I'm better, but Vince got sick last night. Really sick. In the bathtub. My morning began with cleaning that up, and it was just revolting, as well as being a cleaning challenge. I made him tea, removed the baby from the bedroom, and left him in peace. I just went to check on him, and the first thing he says to me is "you forgot about me!" Charming. No, I didn't forget about you, I was trying to let you rest while I took care of your child, your business, your dog, and additional disgustingness that has resulted in me currently wearing my third clean sweatshirt of the day. Asshole. And then he requested Manhattan clam chowder. What kind of self-respecting victim of a stomach bug asks for clam chowder? If it reappears in the tub, I am so out of here.

On a completely unrelated note, have you seen the show "Boohbah"? It's a new British import on PBS. I'm hoping you've seen it, so that you can tell me if the Boohbahs remind you of the same thing they bring to my mind....

Hang in there.

[SarahB]

Julia,

I must say, I think your response to Steve was quite understandable, butI'm glad you two have made up and that you are "kisses and chocolate" again. Proceeding with testing for Steve seems like the best next step, plus you've had more than your fair share of poking and prodding of late. I hope you are able to find the appropriate lab and dr's to perform the tests and work with your insurance.

[Julie M]

I was wondering about the money back guarantee thing...The places I researched offered the money bask on the IVF part, but not the PGD part and some of the injectables, etc. Does this really cover it all?

If Steve doesn't get in line, offer him an either/or. (a) $24000 IVF/PGD or (b) $500 (or whatever) sperm donor. It's like a small child...if you say "would you like _____" it's always "no". But if you say "would you like peas or carrots", you get a vegetable in them either way. Good luck.

Julie M

[Kristina]

Forget the beer and cinnamon - on January 28th it's the cerulean blue sky and water I want, and a cabana boy plying me with tropical drinks.

I could have warned you about how the selfish motherfucker conversation would go - it's one I know pretty well now, but strangely, hasn't worked out so well for me. Ian is a stubborn bastard about admiting bad behavior, but at least has enough sense to ask me on occasion if I plan on clubbing him to death in his sleep. A sweet "Maybe" always seems to pacify him.

I do want another child. Maybe it is his resistance, but in the last month there is a little seed of doubt germinating in my head. Maybe I'm selfish. Then I remember it's just time to weed and it goes away.

Ah, the overprotective grandparents. That is the other side to the crazy grandparent coin. If my mother can't hear Henry breathe while I am on the phone with her, she makes me feel like I am committing an act of gross negligence. I am still chuckling to myself about the three-legged asbestos chair. You are too funny.

My favorite german word lately is gemutlichkeit. A cozy, happy feeling - and exactly what I am wishing you.

[Summer]

Another thought from Summer: I've been thinking about the centifuging of sperm idea, and the one place I've heard of that regularly does that are the clinics for gender selection. Ok, I'll admit that I saw it on TLC or someplace like that, but I believe that there still are places in the states that exist solely to do sperm-whirling and IUIs. It must be far cheaper than IVF w/PGD. Perhaps it would be worth a net search and a few phone calls to see if one of these places would be willing to try knocking you up to test your theory....

We're getting closer on our bizarre real estate deal. I'm getting cold feet, and would really like to hear your take on it. I could use an outside voice saying, "no, really, it is a good idea" right about now!

[Crystal]

Crap. I was really hoping those raised antenae were misfiring. At least he had the good sense to acknowledge his mistake, and make up for it.

You know, if it comes down to it, I agree with whomever said give him choices. I think I'd add a 3rd, adoption, simply because I suspect that might worry him more than DI, but I could be wrong. You do your best to be a good wife, you humor his constant influx of obnoxious guests, it's his turn to step up to the plate.

Isn't it interesting talking with medical people who have bought the whole "I have degree and therefore I am G-d" mentality? I mean really, it's spread to the whole allied health profession now, not just MD's, or the true G-d's of the medical world, MD/Ph.D's (*ducking*). I've finally lost my last marble, and am following my Mom into the realm of alternative health care (for primary care, at least). My favorite author and lecturer made a cogent argument for our society's professional dependence. We've lost the ability to educate and care for ourselves, much to our detriment, in part, because the experts never are, and can't possibly be, right all the time. His hypothesis is that we need to reclaim our power, our ownership of our lives. I agree.

The problem is, the allopathic set, for all their "informed patient population" ramblings, really resent an informed, educated patient who wants a second opinion, and questions their G-dlike wisdom. It's not their fault, it's the way they're trained. If you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with bullshit. Nobody wants to go to a Dr. who admits they're wrong sometimes. Like hell! My favorite MD said "I don't know" with charming regularity. Not only that, but she promptly went and found the answer from someone she trusted who did know.

Well at least you've found someone to do the testing. I think that's a positive first step, although, I worry if the results are too ambiguous to be of help. I mean, where do you draw the line? And if the results seem to contradict your recent experience, then what? Then again, there is the possibility of other issues, so maybe...

I don't know. Frankly, I am really still hoping for that magic wand. No more testing, no more needles, no more invasive (or otherwise) procedures. Most importantly, no more m/c. Just a nice, round Julia, swelling with child. Oh, sorry, I must have drifted off to Never, Never Land again...

Speaking of which, I couldn't get back to sleep, and pulled an all-nighter, so I should probably hit the hay. But I'm sorry. I'm very, very sorry that you're even having to go through any of this. I'm sorry that all the people who should be lining up to *offer* help to you in this seem to need a cattle prod to remember what they're about. I'm glad you blew your lid, I think you needed to let loose a little bit, although poor Steve. He just has no idea what the whole process is like. It's a little like trying to explain labor. Something is lost in translation. Men experience the loss, Steve I'm sure, but it's a different set of losses. Yours come with additional baggage.

I hope it gets better.

Crystal

[Julia]

Julia, I'm glad to see that my husband isn't the only one who can be an ass about all of this. I had the exact same reaction you did, but with regards to adoption. What they don't get is that they're farming out OUR bodies for each and every one of these pregnancies. I got to the point that I was even a teeny bit grateful for my hemorrghing (sp?) episode - which led to an ER visit and my fourth D&C in 6 months - because it at least caused a glimmer of recognition that this is dangerous business and I could actually die. Grrr.

Anyway, I sympathize and empathize, and I'm glad you kicked his butt a bit.

[Lisa C.]

(formerly known as Lisa-the boob, now Lisa C.)
Thanks for asking about our TTC efforts,,well, I am 10 dpo, waiting for the bitch to arrive, without any support. Husband had to go out of town for a few days, I'm sure he's silently grateful not to hear me rant and rave "do my breasts look bigger, more swollen, heavier? huh?huh?" 50 times a day. I spotted yesterday, is that a good thing or just wishful thinking?, I guess I'll know on the 2nd,,
Lisa C.

[Julie M]

FYI, I asked the inciid guy about my brilliant sperm idea--went on expounding for paragraphs and asked his opinion. His response was terse, as always:

"I'm not convinced centrifugation works. In theory, it's a great idea.
We are beginning research studies in an attempt to separate normal from genetically unbalanced sperm".

Maybe they can practice os Steve.

Julie

[Jen A]

Greetings again, Julia. I have to say you responded better to Steve than I probably would have; I think I would have had to be bailed out of jail. (Thank God my folks are lawyers!) I've found that a good sob session usually brings men around to your point of view. I'm an emotional person and tend to cry when I'm upset any way, but I have been known, rarely, to turn on the faucets to make a point. I know, shame on me. :-)

I want another baby for you so bad that I can't stand it. Of course, there's is nothing I can do to help, other than continually offering the emotional support of a complete stranger. :-) I'm sorry to see your iparenting diary end, but I completely understand. Know that I will be checking in often and rooting for you.

Jen A

[Julia]

Elaina: You are why female friends are so important. I love phrases like: I am completely on your side. Very soothing.

Laura: The Chicago place is RGI and I just could not get the right person on the phone there for some reason. The receptionist, understandably, could not help and she then sent me to the phone nurse who said they didn't do what I was asking for. I think she is wrong, but couldn't get anyone to give me a lab number. The $24,000 did not include the PGD. It also did not seem to include much else, as I went back and read the rider attached. And yes, Dr. inciid was the guy that emailed me. He is also affiliated with the $24K clinic. I have decided he is quite nice, although as abrupt as hell. I keep forgetting about St. Barnabas. They might be worth a call. On a final note, adoption is not a possibility for us, ever. Steve is so violently, adamantly opposed it isn't even funny. Which is a bummer.

Julie: Oh how very nice to have you visit my blog! After I googled yours I was wracked with blog-envy and a desire to join the mordant miscarriage gang. I regret that I did not have you along as my attache during this week's fertility battle: Steve, this is Julie. She'll be representing me in this matter. Julie, your throwing stars and rubber baton.

Hey Jen! 5 days until you start stims, right? I am all a-twitter. Thanks for talking to your friend, I don't mind at all. I do need to call RGI again and try St. Barnabas, I suppose. I am abnormally attached to options, you know? I like to know what all of my options might be, from the practical to the bizarre.

Thanks Sarah! Hope you are well.

Julie M: If you ask Steve if he wants peas or carrots he will say pizza. He's that kind of person. After reading this I went back and read what the $24K covers and what is refunded and the answer is "not much" and "all of it" respectively. The $24,000 doesn't include PGD, or medicine, etc... so it is also not part of the refund. It is www.shadygrovefertility.com if you want to check it out. So the inciid guy is the one I emailed who said that would check gamete proportions for $1500. I am tempted to write back and ask whether we could talk about centrifugation and IUI with him. I mean, seriously, why not use us as guinea pigs? I don't see what we have to lose. Do you think I should ask him?

Kristina: I'll bet the Germans have a word that means "genetic test to determine proportion of abnormal gametes per ejaculate." They are such a precise people.

For reference, Steve read this last entry of mine and said, Hey! We did not agree that I had behaved poorly! I told him it was my blog and I can tidy things up if I want to. We DID make up and Steve has agreed to do the sperm testing with an eye towards moving towards IVF next, but one had to be very careful in how this is worded. Ha ha, I won, for example, would go over very badly.

Maybe you're selfish for wanting another child? I don't see it, personally, but then again it could be my failing too.

Ack- the overprotective grandparent! I call my mother. I talk for half a minute. She interrupts, suddenly, frantically, with WHERE'S PATRICK? Like I forgot him somewhere, or left him in the tub with the hair-dryer while I wandered off to make a phone call. Drives me nuts.

Crystal: I think it comes down to the fact that Steve could easily handle not having another child where I could not. Thus, his determination to neither adopt nor use any other sperm produced off-site can trump any rock paper or scissors I throw out there. Simply because my desire to have a child by any means necessary is greater than his. A negotiating weakness.

Hi Julia: Ah, yeah, I lost the adoption argument a long time ago, quick and dirty. Now I am reduced to offering up my rather foul options: would you like me to shoot myself full of drugs and pray that it works or run a ridiculously high risk of miscarriage and pray that it works. It sucks. Thanks for the sympathy and the empathy.

getupgrrl: This was EXTREMELY helpful thank you. Any time you want to butt-in and provide such sterling suggestions that could possibly lead to my, oh, I don't know, getting pregnant and staying pregnant, feel free. Always a pleasure.

Lisa C (Lisa the Boob, oh, please, not at all): Ah, the post-ovulatory crazies, I know them well. I have discovered that I ALWAYS feel pregnant after I ovulate and sometimes before. Like right now, I am feeling a little touch of pregnant. Of course, I often am, so there is that. When are you going to test? Keep me posted. I do like a nice success story.

Jen A: Thanks, cherub, I appreciate the support, as always.

[Mindy]

Hello! Found you through Selfindulgent Ramblings and immediately recognized your voice and style--we must have been friends in a former life! Linked you right up.

[Kathy W]

Julia,
I have followed you here from iparenting (hmm ..feeling a bit like a stalker)and I have to say that I have always enjoyed your diary- hope this site allows you a bit more fredom to express yourself! Quick comment- saw you are listening to the Buena Vista Social Club- one of my favorite CDs of all time. Had the pleasure of seeing Ibrahim Ferrer in concert a few years back. I have always wanted to go to Cuba and lived in Spain for a while so I do not need to liner notes to understand what they are saying (well, not always). If you are looking for other CDs along the same line, check out the Afro-Cuban Allstars- some of the same artists appear. Best of luck in whatever you do.
Kathy

[Brooke]

Hi Julia,
Off the subject but I'm wondering what you think of typepad? I'm considering a move myself...any thoughts? You can respond to my personal email above if you prefer. Thanks!

[Julia]

Mindy: Well thank you and I understand exactly what you mean by that shock of recognition. I have had that a few times and it is always pleasant. I visited the mommy blog and was dazzled. Will revisit soon and often.

Kathy: Thank you so much. I don't think it counts as stalking when I say "This is my new site. Please visit it. Please tell me what you think. Please come back." Falls under the heading of 'she was asking for it', I think.

I will definitely check-out the Afro-Cuban Allstars, thank you. I lived in Honduras for a while, but failed to learn a damn thing. No, wait, I know how to ask for a bag of milk in Spanish, but I am also illiterate in that language and could not type it out for you if my life depended upon it.

My bestfriend went to Cuba a few years ago via Canada. Said it was pretty cool.

Brooke: I really like typepad a lot, frankly. I needed to move on from iparenting because I simply couldn't see myself chronicling another pregnancy start there. Besides, I wanted the control of pasting pictures and correcting my own typos (check out my new photo from today, live-action practically) and swearing when I needed to swear. Not to mention that there are some wicked smart women writing wicked good stuff and not giving a damn whether they are offensive to the common denominator. It inspires the fuck out of me, frankly, to write more and write better. Go for it, says I, and gimme the link when you do. Otherwise I will trot back over to iparenting to check on you and Satchel (ah, little Sancho, you should have heard my mother-in-law go off on the Irish when Patrick was in utero "They think they are charming but I KNOW they are a bunch of shiftless drunks- no Irish names for my grandchild if I have a say in it) but I don't know... have you noticed that they cleaned up some pages and added new writers, but the new ones aren't really writing? Too little too late perhaps.

[Kerry (UK)]

Julia, GOOD FOR YOU!!!

I think it's great that you're formulating an action plan and I hope it'll yield the desired result in the shortest possible time and with the least possible hassle for you along the way. Speaking of hassle, I'm sorry Steve has been less than enthusiastic about the whole thing but let's face it, that's what men are there for... I'm sure he'll come around to the idea if you stick to your guns.

Thank you for asking about me in the midst of everything you're going through. I'm fine, not pregnant but then again not trying to be just at the moment as I felt my poor bod needed some time to detox after a wonderful but horrendously overindulgent holiday season (we're literally talking wine with breakfast here - a real treat but hardly what preconception websites etc. recommend!) I think we'll start trying again in March or April although my parents are coming to stay for three weeks from mid-March so I'm not sure how that will work out!

Looking forward to hearing what you find out from your doctor.
Take care,
Kerry x

[Anne, G and, O]

Hi, just checking in. You are totally valid to yell at Steve as you did. I would've done same. I saw your last entry on iP. I had heard of a place called Microsort. www.microsort.net I had found it a while back while looking at an option of not having another boy, but a girl next time. Anyway, it is a Gender Selection type place in Fairfax, VA and they sperm wash. I don't know if they could help you or not. I think it's much less than 24k. But, still out of my range. We decided to TTC for a girl when I've lost all of my weight. I am assuming I will have another boy, which will then lead us to international adoption of a little girl. I'm glad you are feeling better. You are definitely a trooper.
Stay warm. I'm jealous of the weather station you got Steve. I would love one. I'm a numbers person and I like to know exact details on things, like temperatures to the tenth degree. Although the thermometer I have is very basic, inside and out, celcius and fahrenheit, high and low of the past 24 hours. I want one of those super ones with the atomic clock so I can know exactly what time it is...:) Anyway, I look forward to reading more entries. Anne

[Kathee & Ian]

Funny! Most men are annoying and although I paint Jim in a wonderful light he gets on my everlasting nerves most days. We've now been "trying" since October and surprise...last week he told me that he didn't want to "try" right now. Didn't seem that it was the right time. I wanted to go throw him in the Chattahoochee River! But I'll let him live for now...Just to torture him. LOL

Once again you made me smile and laugh out loud. Not sure that is what you were going for in this entry but you did. :)

Take Care!

Kathee