For The Four And Under Crowd

Since early childhood I have favored the notion that I might be a prodigy at, um, something. It always seemed to me that this would be the easy way to live and as many times as my mother would explain that those little violin geniuses worked very very hard at their craft I would always retort that they certainly did not work as hard as I would have to in order to achieve the same results. I mean, look at these stubby fingers!

In time, I sadly came to accept that I am not a prodigy after all (although just contemplate all of the things I have never even attempted: the monovalve b'rugalsec! Farsi! synchronized swimming! perhaps I am exceptionally gifted at any number of things and I just haven't tried them yet... the mind boggles at my untapped potential) BUT the notion that easier is better has stayed with me. Some call this mere laziness and to them I say.... eh.

This is why I do not like parenting books. The sleep guides and the food directives and the stage-by-stage analyses all seem to be predicated upon the notion that some sort of parental exertion is required to achieve maximum childage whereas I like to believe that the tree just grows in Brooklyn. "More sleep! Less stress!" that's my motto.

So it is with a heavy heart that I finally realized Patrick was not just going to come up to me one day and say, "Excuse me, mother, I need to use the men's room. I'll be back in a moment." Months of my most eager, "Hey! Would you like to sit on the potty?" have been met with a curt "No" and many times the kid has flat-out lied to me when questioned about the state of his posterior. I decided it was time to get a little more interactive with the process. I will confess right now, it's killing me.

We are three days into Potty Watch and, seriously, I am frazzled to a vanilla crisp and in need of any advice you can slather upon me.

This is what I have done. Tell me what I should do next. 

First, I let Patrick have an M&M. As this was his first introduction to anything sweeter than a graham cracker (yes! I KNOW! I DO keep Peppermint Patty Bites in my bedside table! I DO have Altoids cinnamon gum in my desk and purse and pockets and just a pinch between my cheek and gum! I am a H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-T-E) it went over like an atomic blast of goodness. He tried it. He savored it. He smacked his tongue against the roof of his mouth for ten minutes afterwards trying to recapture its essence. He said, "Want another treat with an 'M' on it?" I said, "SURE! If you sit on the potty!"

Then he and I made a Potty Chart. It had his name AND an apostrophe (letters! punctuation! he swooned.) It had lots of little boxes (squares! inside a rectangle! his heart!) and the boxes were numbered (o! how he loves numbers!) As the coup de grace I bought a couple of sheets of cat stickers (also dogs, butterflies and flowers, but they do nothing for him) and explained that he could put a STICKER in a SQUARE under a NUMBER beneath the LETTERS when he used the potty.

At which point we entered a potty detente that lasted several weeks. His desire for chocolate and the chart warred with his unwillingness to take orders like some sort of Golden Retriever, but he finally caved after our return from the beach. He sat. I handed him five M&Ms. He sat again. He got more M&Ms. Nothing happened but it was a step in the right direction.    

On Monday I put underwear on him and he promptly wet himself. "Huh," he said. "It's cool," I said and put on another pair. These got drenched five minutes later. "Are you wet?" he asked. "Apparently," I replied, wringing him out.

On Tuesday I abandoned the underwear and let him run around pants-less. When Steve saw him wander thusly into his office he shied like I was waving a loaded gun around. "It is a natural thing," I told Steve sententiously. All day Patrick would start to pee on the floor or a chair or my lap and then would stop himself. "What did you do?" he would come find me to ask.

"Did you pee?"

"Yes," he would say and take me to whatever little puddle he had created.

"That's ok! Let's go finish on the potty!" And I would sit him down and he would pee. And get a sticker. And count the stickers. And it was good. He even forgot about the M&Ms, so I ate them. Huzzah!

On Wednesday I tried putting pants on him again and he promptly got soaked. So we are back to being All Nude All the Time (except at bedtime. and naps. and our trip to Target to lay in another potty and more stickers. then he was re-diapered up to his eyeballs. Is that wrong?)

As I was typing this Patrick came over and asked for some Playdough. I said, "OK, just use the potty first." And he walked over, competently flipped up the lid, sat down and voila! Pee! God how I love the stuff. Then he wanted another sticker so he went over and tried again.

So....  I think things are progressing but I have questions.

When should I try to put underwear on him again? How long do I keep putting diapers on at naptime and bedtime? How on earth do I ever get him to use a toilet that is more than 12 inches high? Are we going to be confined to the house forever? Also, there are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamed of in our current potty philosophy. You know... it ain't all just pee. I was trying to encourage Patrick to poop in there as well and... WOW... "upset" does not even begin to cover his emotions when he realized what the hell it was I was trying to get him to do. Does that go away or should I just sign him up with a competent therapist?

ANY suggestions at all would be vastly appreciated. For those of you who are not currently obsessed with the content of someone else's bowels and bladder my most heart-felt apologies to you for having read this. 

I swear I will write something suitably Adult next.

Comments

[Natalie]

I'm first! ANd I don't have any words of wisdom. I have a two year-old daughter who is highly interested in the 12 inch high potty, pulls down her shorts/diaper at every opportunity, sits on it, and ... nothing. Then she pulls up the diaper and promptly pees in it. She has done better with poop. I may have to resort to the M&M's as well. Best of luck!

[Alison]

Having recently potty trained my son, I speak from relatively fresh experience. Bribes rock!

Logan (will be three on the 29th) still gets pull-ups for nap and bedtime, although he really doesn't need them for naps anymore. Or overnight for that matter, but I'm not so into laundry, so until I think he's ready, he shall continue to get them then as well.

The transition from mini-potty to "real" toilet was easy. Get a few stools, and a few seat inserts (the Baby Bjorn one is the best, IMHO). Set that up with the little potty and let Patrick choose between the two. Once he sees that Mommy and Daddy use the big potty exclusively, he'll want to, too.

As for being trapped at home, once they get the hang of it, they can dangle off edges of real, public potties just fine. They do make a portable potty seat, but I took one look at it and decalred it not good enough for my baby's tush. It folds up, so it could easily pinch wee bottoms, and I was deathly afraid that my son would be forever afraid of the potty if it did, i.e. The potty bit me! I'm not sitting on it ever again!

Just my two cents. Hope some of it was at least remotely helpful.

Alison

[Mia C.]

Have you looked into the Dr. Phil method? You have him teach a doll to go potty in his potty- then every time he goes that isn't on the potty, you have him sit on it? Since he has already peed on it, when he poops on it he gets a call from his favorite character. It's probably on the website.
Mine just turned 1. I fear the potty training. FEAR.

[Ellie]

I'm just starting to begin to think about approaching the potty training thing. Tommy will go on the big potty when he feels like it (he has never been interested in the little potty, not even as a chair). The naked thing is our best bet these days. But it's hit or miss, depending on how bored he is. He's never asked to take off the diaper, so maybe we need to try some training diapers. To be honest, I'd rather deal with changing diapers than washing sheets and couches and my bed all the time. Are you sure it doesn't just magically happen?

[VHMPrincess]

We potty trained our son by accident.

He loves his wading pool. He loves to play in it naked.
Pee/poop in pool = mommy empties pool and we go inside.

Being a boy, it is EASY to see when they pee in a pool that is only 6 inches or so deep. Bring the potty out and tell him the rules (or let him pee in the yard, my son likes that too, though I HATE IT - but will be a good segway into "peeing Daddy-style", which is REQUIRED at my son's preschool, they have a little-boy-urinal)

All this time, have him in feel-n-learns. With bonus presents if he pees in the potty when you're not playing in the pool. NO PRESSURE ON HIM.

After a couple of days, switch to undies.

That's what worked for us (the 'couple of days' of course was like a month for us because we didn't know we had trained him to know when he had to go).

[VHMPrincess]

ALSO - out in public, I just hold him up in the air (as if he was standing on a stool, one arm around his chest, another around his legs) and he just pees, airplane style. Unless of course, the toilet is short enough, then he just stands. Sometimes, he stands on the seat and pees down.

[Emily]

I have no experience whatsoever training anything to use the can (our dog came housebroken and so did my husband), but reading your post reminded me of a jaw-dropping episode of Nanny 911 (try not to pass judgment on me for actually having watched it) where a woman couldn't get her three-year-old son to do anything in the potty. Its not that he couldn't determine when he needed to go, its just that she had let him manipulate her into believing he could only pee in the shower and outside. So whenever he had to go, the mom would usher him outside, and he would wander around their FRONT YARD until he found a suitable place to drop trou. The cameras caught him standing on the curb and peeing a glorious yellow arch into the street as cars drove through the neighborhood.

I guess what I wanted to tell you is that there are some people out there who fail miserably at this whole thing (and who let themselves be put on NATIONAL TELEVISION), and I thought I'd just let you know that it sounds like you're doing a great job. Haven't been reading your blog for long, but I really enjoy it. Thanks for the free entertainment!

[S]

Mine is just shy of a year, so I am interested in advice, too. I did see a Dr. Phil episode (out of curiosity, not a big fan) where they threw a party and trained the kid in one day. Maybe his website would have more info. Also, as for out in the real world, my sister in law always had my nephew do "the airplane" - stood on her feet with his arms out and leaned over to pee. This way he didn't touch anything gross. Last, there is the "aim for the Cheerios" trick where you throw a few in the toilet. On the flip side, this could lead to flushing other things down the toilet, too.
Good luck!

[Scully]

I've blanked out the potty training years. My son was going back and forth between his father's house and mine and three people were trying to toilet train him. It was awful, for all of us.

He was 4 1/2 before we finally got it done, meaning he wore diapers at night until he was 4 1/2 when he finally one night put his foot down and refused to wear one.

He wet the bed at night periodically until he was 10, but that's another story (and it's guy thing).

I did what I thought was best. I had a very small apartment so I didn't bother with a potty. I encouraged him to tell me when he had to go. I never worried about accidents and I just did a lot of laundry.

So, I'm not much to you. It was a very long time ago.

Now, if I could just arrange getting to the bathroom at work rather than telling myself I'll edit four more paragraphs and then go to the ladies room, even though my bladder is bursting.

i have a 4 year old. for a long time he just wasn't interested, and then finally he was. my parents (pediatricians) and my own doctor (god forbid i'd see my family) supported letting him do it on his own time, even though it was making me nuts waiting.

some thoughts:

1 - big vs. little pottys. sometimes it's good to let dad (who has the same equipment) demonstrate the fun in standing (put a cheerio or something in to aim at). also, they sell small seats (some puffy, some not) that you can put in to make the hole smaller. this was useful for my skinny little guy.

2 - we are in underwear during day, naps but he still wants pull-ups at bedtime (he definitely does not need them). we just keep casually suggesting he try underwear at night (he never was in pull-ups during the day, but we decided putting him in diapers part of the time and underwear others was confusing, so we got the pull-ups as a compromise). usually it was a "i'm so involved in other things oops i forgot to pee" sort of thing with us. sometimes, you just need to let him pee in underwear. it's uncomfortable. but then they learn why they need to pay attention to the potty signals. alternatively, you can try the "give lots of stuff to drink and try on a regular basis" scheduling. i was never on top of things enough to do that. also, did you have him buy and pick his own underwear? i hate the characters but it was much more motivating when we did.

3 - pooping. this is a hard one (pun intended). they potty train. they don't poop (it's scarier for some reason). they get constipated, the poop gets hard, it's painful, bad feedback. the longer they hold it the more uncomfortable it is when it comes out. we tried a lot with this. finally, although we hated to, we started on glycolax (a small amount in juice - it's a doctor-prescribed medicine). we took a day to titrate to the amount that didn't lead to the runs but made the poop soft enough that it didn't hurt coming out (from holding so long, my son developed a huge fissure and there was blood, etc, so we needed to treat with a medically supervised laxative/softener). after a few days of this my son was comfortable with the pooping again. at our doc's office (interestingly, at a major med center affiliated w/ a potty specialist) they told us with fissures and all they often stay on this medicine for 6 months. they recommended we just watch, and when our son was comfortable pooping regularly we could stop. so 1.5 weeks later we stopped. and now it's all good.

4 - also, you will get there. i found it was a lot easier on his time schedule. it just happens, then. and he's not going to have this trouble when he's 16 so it will be over.

good luck!

[sara]

We had the same problem with pants=loss of awareness.

I can't say I found any solution at all other than time. After he was confidently getting himself to the potty *before* the pee started to come out, he seemed to have enough awareness of it about to begin that he could wear pants. By the way - try starting with a loose pair of sweatpants rather than just unides - the undies are tight like diapers and we had better luck with him going commando under sweats. Plus: sweats hold the wetness against his legs (and keep more of it away from your floor!

I found there was also a difference between the skill of peeing on demand, which just requirse that you walk to the potty and release whatever is in your bladder, and peeing at need, which means sensing that you really are about to let fly and holding it in until you get to a potty. They seem to be wired in different areas of the brain.

[Mar]

Don't worry about the night/nap thing now - concentrate on the days first. The nights will follow. One of my kids was daytime trained for a year before he went through the night - my other one did the whole thing in one fell swoop. Some kids could care less about being wet (my son) and some kids freak about about a pea size spot on their underwear (my daughter). Some kids love the potty seat (my son) and some only want to ever use the "grown up" potty (my daughter). Sounds like either being in the buff or just underwear at least is giving you the opportunity to bring attention to the need for the potty, so I'd stick with that. When I tried Pull-Ups with my son, he just figured that meant he was *supposed* to be peeing in them, not the potty - in general, other than sleeping, I'm not a big fan of the Pull-Ups.

Not to be too graphic, but he knows that you and your husband use the toilet for all of your bodily functions, right? I found setting longer term, larger goals helped with my son (of course, he has a such a large bladder that it was hard to "catch" him - since he only pees 2-3 times a day!!!) Set a really big reward for the #2 issue - if you poop in the potty 3(4, 5) times, we'll go to ______, or visit _____, or buy you _____. If it helps to use the line "Daddy always goes in the toilet" - my son was always about being like his dad, so that helped. Of course, it was a little bit of a problem when his younger sister wanted to pee standing up "just like my brother!" But make it something he really, really wants, and talk about it all the time, so he obsesses over it. Sounds like he's a goal oriented child, so that should work for you.

If, after a few weeks, it isn't getting better at all, or if it has become traumatic for everyone (just being traumatic for you because you have all the laundry to do doesn't count!!), take a break. My son was (seemingly) fully trained at 3, then, after 3 months, decided he didn't want to use the potty (and much sobbing ensued - quite a bit of it by me!), and then he decided it was OK to be potty trained - and that was that.

It sounds like your doing all the right things - just try to stick with them for a little longer!! Good luck!

[Karen]

It sounds like you are on the right track to me. What worked for us was to figure out what the child really wanted, and then offer that as the carrot on the stick (see, a proper use of the poor idiom!). For my youngest daughter, it was chewing gum. She begged for it before her 2nd birthday, and I explained to her that she could have chewing gum when she was ready to put ALL of her pee and poop in the potty. Gum dropped off her radar screen for about 6 months and then popped back up.

We got busy with the training potty and she had it figured out in just a couple of weeks. We still have accidents occasionally (10 months later), but they consist of a teaspoon of pee in her panties because she wasn't paying attention. She's been chewing gum happily since the day she started wearing panties for good.

Night-time dryness is completely separate from potty training. You will have to play that one by ear; some kids aren't able to maintain bladder control overnight until they are 5 or 6 or 7.

IMO, readiness for potty training has to involve the ability to verbalize the need, the agility to manage the clothes, and the desire to stay dry. I know Patrick's got the first two down....

You can switch to cloth diapers and diaper covers for now to give Patrick a little more incentive to stay dry if you think he needs that extra push. Or use the training panties underneath a diaper to get the wetness next to his skin and save your carpeting at the same time.

As far as leaving the house goes, you can put one of the training potties in the trunk of your car. A friend of mine had the brilliant idea to line the collection cup with a diaper, so cleanup is minimal if you have to take a potty break away from home. Or a roll of paper towels and some plastic bags with the potty works well, too.

HTH!

[Amy]

Boys are a special challenge because they have that little fire hose they get to play with. I have two girls and my first?

Let's just say that housetraining puppies is easier. Way easier. What worked for me was the nakedness. All naked all the time. Our own personal nudist camp, except with only one nudist.

I started training her once, and after about a week of wetting pants, peeing on the floor, etc. etc. I gave up. I tried again about 2 months later and she took to it like a duck to water. I think so much is in the timing, yet we have no idea when that magical timer goes off. Good luck, and stock up on paper towels.

[Meg]

My daughter trained at 27 months and we probably used all kinds of tricks. First, we did potty train a doll. Second, she got in the habit of sitting on the potty when mama and da did. Then we started practicing sitting on the potty without pants (but not expecting anything to happen.) Then we moved to undies and she'd ask for a diaper everytime she needed to pee or poo. I let her have them for the first few days, then the next time she asked i bribed her to sit on the potty. I used the mini M&Ms for baking. They're tiny, and that way i didn't feel bad about her getting 20 M&Ms a day. LOL. For poop, i waited about a week until she really had the pee thing down. Then it was the same thing - bribery and songs. We also spent a lot of time on the potty just sitting, reading books, when we were pantsless, to get her used to it.

She gave up naps the same time as she was potty trained (ugh!), so in the early months on the rare occasion that she'd sleep during the day, i'd just put a towel under her and leave the panties on. She had very few accidents.

Night training happened nearly a year later - she never woke up dry, so i figured that was an issue of her bladder just not being big enough to handle 12 hours of pee. But one day she just informed me that she'd no longer be peeing in the night and hasn't since.

I had a potty seat to take out on occasions and at the beginning it was worth it, but she quickly outgrew the need for it. Now we just toilet paper and sit and she hangs on to me.

Good luck with it! Potty training isn't exactly one of life's greatest joys, is it?

[Marsha]

Here's what worked for us, although I make no promises: we picked a long weekend when we would both be home all day every day. The first morning we set a time for 15 minutes. When the bell went off, onto the potty went the Boy Wonder and the time was reset for another 15 minutes. So, every 15 minutes for about two days he sat on the potty and did nothing. Finally, on the third day he happened to urinate while sitting on the toilet. In response, his dad and I make a huge, happy dance deal about it whereupon the Boy said something like, "Oh, I see! This is what I'm supposed to be doing here. Cool!"

We then moved to on the potty every 30 minutes with the time, but incessant asking: Do you have to pee, honey? Three days of *that* and he started telling us when he had to go and we gave up pull-ups altogether about a week later. Pooping and overnight dryness took about another month.

At the beginning, he didn't want to do the every 15 minute sit-down but we regarded this the same way we do naps, carseats and sunscreen: you may not like the process but we're your parents and this is something we know it's important for you to do. So we'd sit with him in the bathroom, maybe read a short book or something to make it easier, but he had to sit there.

Good luck - every kid is different and I have a sneaking suspicion that my daughter will be as hard as her brother was easy. I've got another year or so to worry about it, though.

[Judy]

I have no advice - I don't think I ever do. I am currently obsessed with the content of someone else's bowels and bladder, but he's only 4 months now, so it's not a potty issue. The goal (exclusively my goal) is 'formed poop' that does not shoot 6-8 inches if it decides to come out while your changing him (impressive the 1st time, and now just messy).

'The tree just grows in Brooklyn' - Are you suggesting parenting (specifically potty training) by starvation? Don't give him food and he won't pee or poop - potty training solved. I can't remember the name of the game they played when there was no food. Crap, I may need to re-read the book.

[Andrea]

Out of gratitude for all the excellent reading and great ideas, here's my ideas. I believe my daughter is exactly the same age as Patrick, for what it's worth.

Hang out with other potty trained/training kids when you can. Admire their underpants. Praise their skills. Chat about the potty with his friends' parents, the extended relatives, etc. You'll feel like a moron, but there's nothing like peer pressure! When we go to parties with other 2-3 year olds, they all go potty together. And our daughter seems to really like having someone else's mommy or daddy take her to the potty.

I think you should give him as many opportunities as you can to go naked or wear underwear right not. My daughter would say no to doing that fairly often at first, so we let her wear a diaper if she resisted. And if we were going out or just couldn't face accidents and reminding her to go to the potty that day, we'd put on a diaper.

For quite a while our daughter especially wanted a diaper for pooping, and I always said yes because I was afraid she would hold back or we'd have some big poop power struggle. We did ask her to try the potty first, and eventually she did it. I also made sure to get plenty of fiber in her diet (fruit and occasional doses of Benefiber in her milk/juice) so that she would have to poop more regularly and it wouldn't hurt coming out.

I agree with Mar that some kids just prefer the big potty and some the little. We found a seat adapter and a footstool made the big potty more popular. Daughter is also quite proud of her special "froggy wipes" (those flushable toddler butt wipes) that she uses after pooping and her special foam hand soap. We didn't do charts, stickers, candy...that sort of thing just doesn't seem to have much effect here.

One friend swears by just making her kid go try the potty every time she goes herself. My daughter wouldn't usually do it, but I did invite her along, and I'm still trying to instill the 'everyone goes potty before we leave the house/go to bed' rule.

Don't even think about underpants at naps/bedtime until he's got good control while he's awake. Just put on a diaper or pull up when he's getting ready to sleep, and take it off when he gets up. When you think he's ready, try naptime. A lot of my daughters' friends were dry at night very early in the process, but she's still waking up with an overflowing Pull up every morning, six months after day control has been acheived. It's really no big deal. Maybe I let her drink too much in the evening, but I think it's mostly just that her body doesn't wake her up yet.

It sounds to me like he's really close to getting it. I remember being very frustrated with our daughter because it seemed to me that she could physically do it, but she kept demanding diapers or having accidents, and then all of the sudden we were down to using one diaper or Pull up per 24 hours (only at night).

Julia,

Refresh my memory, how old is Patrick?

Julie

[e]

I think if you are set on training him you are doing the right thing. I used dipes during nap time far longer than the girls needed because I hated the thought of extra laundry. BUT, I also most firmly believe that they will learn to use the potty on their own if you let them do it in their own time frame. Does Patrick need to be potty literate to go to preschool in the fall? Perhaps I am lazy, but to me it was easiest to wait until they were ready than to do more laundry. He will learn it, he'll have to if he wants to get any dates in high school.

[DLG in Mich]

The Dr. Phil method someone mentions above is a rip off of this book: Toilet Training in Less Than A Day by Nathan Azrin. I heard that a few of my neighbors had successfully used the method outlined in this book, so I tried it with my 3.5 year old and it was like magic. You use a doll that wets and you focus on doing nothing but potty training and after about six hours, he 'got it'. You do use rewards throughout the day, so it helps if they like candy (more M&Ms for Patrick!). I tried the same method a few months later on my 2.5 year old and it worked, but the results weren't as dramatic (took more like 2.5 days instead of one). Still, I would recommend trying the method in the book - it worked great for us. Good luck!

[Ninotchka]

We abandoned the potty seat post haste when all Elle wanted to do was play with it, push it around the house and climb on it. We went straight to the potty. And we did what her school told us to do. Kept her in panties and put her on the potty every 45 minutes. Accidents have greatly diminished, she's in panties for most of the day. Even naps! I would say she's about 95% trained. So I've relaxed a bit. She won't be in Pull Ups in first grade, I'm sure of it. I found the more I pushed the more frustrated we both became. So I just eased up and now she rarely fights me when I say "It's time to go potty!"

Hey, it's progress. Ask me again when she's 4 (she just turned 3). lol

Good luck!

[Andrea]

Not sure how much help I can be, but I have three boys so I can tell you what worked for us. My almost 5-year-old still occasionally has difficulties at night. However, we did use a potty seat and one that inserted into the toilet since he was absolutely terrified he would fall into the toilet. My now 3-1/2 year old came to me almost 1-1/2 years ago and said "if you buy me Spiderman underpants I'll stay dry" and that's pretty much how it worked with him. With my third (19 months old) he is already starting to potty train himself because that's what the big boys do. He pees and/or poops on the potty about once a week.

The best thing I can say is really do not stress about it, that just makes it worse. They will just do it when they want to, absolutely not on anybody else's schedule.

Also, with my oldest one of the things that worked best was to have underwear that looked like Dad's.

And just remember it could get worse - for about a month after I had my third all three were in diapers!

[cathy b]

In public bathrooms I always had my sons stand on top of my feet (both of us facing the toilet, guy-like) to make them tall enough to reach the taller toilets. That made them feel comfortable and steady where the lifting under the arms airplane thing made them nervous (& slow-going). Of course, this could trash your good shoes or hurt with sandals--but I was pretty much always in cross-trainers back then.

And they never wanted to pee sitting on the little potty at home. It was all about standing up and handling their junk in a manly, daddy-like way.

[angie]

Hi,
I read everyday (since your iparenting days) but have never commented. I have a son who is the same age (a month older) and we have been trying for #2 since his birth. 2 miscarriages later and 2 IUI's - still nothing. Anyway, enough about me. What I found worked for the potty was the chart thing you described. But I made sure there were only like 8 boxes the first day. I would give my son a sticker (or we just did stars) for trying to go (he just had to sit on the potty every hour - if that doesn't work, try every 1/2 hour) and then if he actually went, he would get 2. When he filled up the chart (by the end of the day) he got to go to target to pick out a Thomas train. We have gradually worked the charts up to more boxes and now (about 2 months into the process) he fills one up every 2 weeks or so- we conveniently forget to put stars on it most times he goes. It was expensive at first (basically a thomas train a day) but it worked for him. The other thing that I did was keep a potty in the back of my car so we weren't confined to the house (although in reality, we were confined for the first week because I was too chicken to venture out).

HOpe something I said might help. I think that you are doing a wonderful job with Patrick (not that what I think matters) and the potty thing will come when he is ready (he is a smart boy and will probably decide on his own when the right time is).

[meredith]

Oh, I'm so excited you posted about this! We're embarking on this too & I'm completely at a loss. He knows how to hold it, knows how to pee on the potty, yet refuses to do it unless it's when HE wants to do it. Pullups are useless to us..he just calls them 'diapers'. I think that we're going to go straight to undies & let the pee flow. I think he'll hate peeing on himself time & again.. well, that's the hope anyways. I just tried the Cheerios in the toilet trick..and well, he wasn't fooled. So I will anxiously await the wisdom of your followers & pray for some miraculous advice. I doubt Dr Phil's 'hero' approach will work. Connor knows the rewards of potty training (stickers & M&M's, too!) and he loves the praise, he just doesn't feel like doing it all the time! Stubborn little bastards..

meredith

[Jessica]

This is probably completely unhelpful, but from my own experience - my favorite advice is put him in preschool and let them do it! Hahaha. I am an evil mother...but hey, it worked for me.

We tried for several months at home with Hana (before they attempted pottying her at school) and had very little success. I swear that the instant she started her training at school, where the other kids were doing the same thing and there was perhaps a little healthy competition, it was a breeze. That is not to say we haven't had accidents and occassionaly setbacks, but it sure did make things much easier. I seem to recall that Allisun from MT had given me the same advice awhile back, and I must say it is handy.

Of course, I realize that in saying all of this, it is very possible you are hoping to enroll him in a program where they FIRST require him to be potty trained before starting. In that case I'd say it sounds like he is getting the basics down so you can probably just slide him in and perhaps upon seeing all the other kids doing the potty thing too, he will be more inclined to wear his undies, get to the potty, and eventually move to a big potty.

Hana moved from her little potty to the big potty when we got sick of cleaning the little pan. We just put hte little one in the attic, got her the seat insert for a regular toilet, and that was that. For some reason that wasn't traumatic for her at all, but I can't claim any credit for that. She was just OK with it on her own.

Using public toilets wtih her still grosses me out b/c it is very hard to get her on and off without touching the toilet. Especially when she (always) insists that I leave the stall and let her be alone. Sigh... We just do a really good handwashing and I cringe and suck it up.

[giddy]

I didn't read the above; apologies if this is repeat assvice.....

I think one key is that if you don't mind dealing with diapers (and there's not an issue with the preschool), there's nothing wrong with waiting until they are pretty old. We didn't stop using diapers/Pullups in the daytime until my daughter was about 3 1/2. The ploy was to tell her that "on Labor Day weekend, in 2 weeks, I think these Pull-ups are going to be too small" and then on that day, we attempted to put a Size 2 diaper on her Size 4 tush, "oh my goodness! you've grown! just like we thought," she totally bought into it, and was extremely excited to put on undies. She wet them 5 times the first day, 2 times the second day, and not at all after that (with occasional lapses). For her I think it was just being SO OLD already that it was easy to get the hang of. We continued Pullups at night until the following spring. (I myself was an occasional bedwetter until age 7 or so, so worried she might be as well...but she has done brilliantly!)

On the potty size thing--she was never interested in the 12-inch potty and so pretty much learned to balance herself on the big one from the start. (There was lots of practice leading up to being 3 1/2, mind you....just no consistent effort to formally potty train....although I do remember trying charts and Sesame Street stickers too at some point with no success.)

The worst part now is public restrooms, where the toilet seat has that cut-out in the front, the one that we adults can avoid easily by spreading our legs but that she constantly gets her thighs on, and of course it is often wet with pee (or flushwater...). I try to have her sit sideways on public toilets, and she can put her hands on the other side for balance if needed, though touching the toilet seat is kind of gross in itself. (Strangely, I've never had an issue with just SITTING on a toilet seat, once I've wiped it down with TP to be sure it is DRY. Please ladies, if EVERYONE would just SIT, then there would be no wetness to dodge!! (except for the toilets that spit when they flush, ugh...)(and I've never heard of anyone getting any actual diseases from their thigh touching someone else's thigh germs (or even, for that matter, someone else's pee).)(Sorry for the tangent, and for the overuse of parentheticals, I know I know, I need to get my own blog.....)

[Cathy]

I potty trained dd#1 by buying her underwear when her two year old teacher said "Cathy buy her some underwear she is ready" Sent her to school with new underwear and set of dry clothes. If she had an accident she was nonjudgementally sent to change her own clothes and had to wear 'ugly' panties. Followed same route at home reminded her to pee before and after bed and naps.

Hmm not much help huh? This is the only parenting subject that I can say, 'You need a system? You don't just get them underwear and ditch the diapers...'

Best of luck-
Cathy

[Legal Diva]

I'm impressed with your progress. We talk about poop and pee and who is doing what and when and where a lot and he'll actually sit on the little potty but to actually use it. We haven't progressed that far.

[jewelly]

I am not a parent, but I think my mom was a genius at these things. I don't know what was suggested above (am writing all incognito like at work and can't fully delve into the comments) but here's what she did:

With my older brother, they sat at home, no errands, maybe the park if he wanted to, and he drank all the Juicy Juice his little heart desired for days. He LOVED Juicy Juice and got lots and lots of practice on the potty.

With me, for the wetting, she bought me very pretty, frilly, "grown-up girl" underwear that I adored. I only got one pair in the morning, and if they got wet, it was okay! But I had to wear the boring cotton ones after that for the rest of the day.

I think she may have tried to latter with my brother and his Superman skivvies, but I don't know what the success rate was.

I love your blog; thanks for writing!

[Hanna]

A friend of mine trained both boys (pee only) by letting them go naked in the backyard all summer (we're all also in MN). I'm thinking of trying it with my 2 year old this summer, but I'm not sure my 80 year old neighbor is up for little boy nakedness.

[Hanna]

A friend of mine trained both boys (pee only) by letting them go naked in the backyard all summer (we're all also in MN). I'm thinking of trying it with my 2 year old this summer, but I'm not sure my 80 year old neighbor is up for little boy nakedness.

[lynn]

How old is Patrick? Here's my story, hope it helps. My basic approach was low-key, wait till he's close to 3.5yo, and lots of bribes. We also talk about it as "helping his body learn how to use the potty" and talk about whether "his body" is ready or not, which might help take the pressure off him, if you see what I mean.

DS was around 2 when he started noticing that pee sometimes came out when he had a bath, and sometimes he would stand up and pee into the bath, and laugh. We started keeping a potty in the bathroom, and first i'd hold the bowl in front of him and he peed into it standing up, then around 2 and 4 months, he learned to sit and pee into the potty before bath.

We kept going with this, giving stickers each time he peed before bathtime, for months. Sometimes when he was naked before bath, he'd notice "pee coming" and we'd quickly sit him on the potty and he peed. I offered a big reward for his first poop in the potty - a new Thomas engine, but once he earned this after several days of attempts, he was back to only pooping in his diaper.

At around 2 and 7 months, we bought some big boy underpants and tried having "practice time" where he'd wear the underpants, and try to notice when pee or poop was coming. After 2 accidents we'd go back to diapers for the rest of the day. But we only did this intermittently, so not surprisingly it didn't seem to be making any progress, so we dropped it for a while. He'd pee every night before bath/bed, and occasionally on request, but that was it. We figured we'd wait and try again once the weather got warm, since it's easier with shorts on (or, I hear, naked in the backyard, though we never did that).

So then around 3 and 3 months, we started for real, and spent a weekend using training underpants all day except naps and bedtime (they were thicker cotton ones). The first day he went all 6 pairs of training underpants, the second day 4, and after that maybe only 1 or 2 accidents. Then he continued to practice at daycare - underpants in the morning, until he'd wet through two pairs, and then she'd declare practice over for the day and put him back in diapers. Then the next day we'd start again. We gave stickers for pee if he "noticed" and went to the potty before the pee came out, and special big stickers for poop - with a bribe of 3 poop stickers = a new Thomas train car. It only took about a week for him to be completely pee-trained while awake. Poops, though, came out in underpants or diapers. After a week, though, he managed to time it so that he only pooped at naptime or bedtime when he was wearing a diaper. He eventually earned the two Thomas cars we had for him, though it took a couple of weeks.

At 3 and 4 months, he was able to wear underpants all day, and use public toilets to pee. He also made most of his poops in the potty, although he still sometimes waited to poop in his diaper at naptime or bedtime.

At 3.5, he started pooping in the potty at bedtime most nights instead of in his diaper, for the promise of chocolate the next day. Bribes rule! After a week or so, he was completely trained to use the potty for all pees and poops, except for pee that he makes while he's asleep at nap or bedtime. We did have a couple of incidents at this time where Joel was nervous about pooping in the poty, held his poop in for a day, and on the second day was very distressed and afraid that it was going to hurt to make the poop, until finally he couldn't hold it in any more and it came out. It didn't appear to hurt him, and of course he felt better immediately, but we've realized that we need to remind him to poop every day. Also at 3.5, he started using the toilet all the time, usually with the potty seat on top of the toilet seat, for comfort.

Now, at 4.5, he is still wearing a diaper or pull-up at night. Usually we wake him once at night to go pee, otherwise the pull-up often leaks through. So we're nowhere near being out of diapers at night, but my understanding is that for boys this often takes a long time, so I'm not worrying about it.

[lynn]

Whew - that was the long version. Sorry about that. My short answer to your questions is:
1. When should I try to put underwear on him again?
I never used the bare-bottom method. Here's what I'd do: Announce that every day you will have "underwear practice." Put underwear on in the morning, change him into a second pair after his first accident, and then announce that underwear practice is over for the day, and you'll start again tomorrow. (or up to as many pairs as you want). Just keep going, and be consistent, it's only been a few days so far.

2. How long do I keep putting diapers on at naptime and bedtime? A long time. It was 4 or 5 months after DS was daytime trained before we got rid of the naptime diapers (at almost 4 - it was his daycare who helped him practice this), and a year and counting on nighttime diapers. This really does take longer for his body to learn.

3. How on earth do I ever get him to use a toilet that is more than 12 inches high? Are we going to be confined to the house forever?
It'll happen quickly, once he gets the hang of it at home. Don't worry about this part at all for now. Declare practice over when you go out, and resume when you get home. Once he's ready, there are portable, foldable toilet seat tops you can get - we carried one around for a couple of months before DS decided he could balance on a regular seat.

4. What about learning to poop on the potty?
In our experience, poop takes longer. Get the pee down first. Then try bigger bribes. DS still, at 4.5, never poops at preschool - he times his poops for evening, bedtime or occasionally in the morning before preschool when he can use the toilets at home.

[bec 35]

I didn't read all of these other comments, but I did do a search for the word "girlfriend" to make sure I wasn't being repetitious. I know you don't like parenting books, but I'd advise reading the potty chapter in Girlfriend's Guide to Toddlers. Iovine's books are not like Spock, Sears, etc., they are your friend-who-had-four-children's words of wisdom. It may not tell you what you should do, but it WILL make you feel better.

bec :D

[Lori]

I have a son who will be 4 in July. I honestly thought he would NEVER be potty trained. I got so much guilt from my "I never had 2 kids in diapers a y'all were 2 years apart" mother I thought I was the biggest failure ever. I really thought I would be diapering him into high school. From 2 to 3 was the hardest year. People kept telling me that it would get easier and I thought "That's what people who use the potty think". My son would take off his diaper during naps and "paint" the wall. To make matters worse, he had to be potty trained to go to pre-school. Finally in June of last year before school started in August, I was done. I decided that I would just send him to school in underwear and if he had an accident I would pretend that he never had had one before. It worked. He had an accident on the first day. He never had another one. Something about him turning 3. I tried it all. The M&ms, the stickers, the talking, the books, naked, not naked, underwear only. You name it, I did it. The only thing that I ever did that made any difference at all was to let him stand up to use the big potty and let him flush the toilet and tell him that we were sending it to the ocean like on "Finding Nemo". For some reason that worked to get him to pee. Pooping, he did on his own.
Now, I think it was better that he was at least 3. He can pretty much take care of himself in the bathroom. If he was younger, that would just be more work for me. My 2 year old daughter acts like she is ready to be trained, but I am just going to take my time. I don't need the stress that I went through last time.

[Lori]

I have a son who will be 4 in July. I honestly thought he would NEVER be potty trained. I got so much guilt from my "I never had 2 kids in diapers a y'all were 2 years apart" mother I thought I was the biggest failure ever. I really thought I would be diapering him into high school. From 2 to 3 was the hardest year. People kept telling me that it would get easier and I thought "That's what people who use the potty think". My son would take off his diaper during naps and "paint" the wall. To make matters worse, he had to be potty trained to go to pre-school. Finally in June of last year before school started in August, I was done. I decided that I would just send him to school in underwear and if he had an accident I would pretend that he never had had one before. It worked. He had an accident on the first day. He never had another one. Something about him turning 3. I tried it all. The M&ms, the stickers, the talking, the books, naked, not naked, underwear only. You name it, I did it. The only thing that I ever did that made any difference at all was to let him stand up to use the big potty and let him flush the toilet and tell him that we were sending it to the ocean like on "Finding Nemo". For some reason that worked to get him to pee. Pooping, he did on his own.
Now, I think it was better that he was at least 3. He can pretty much take care of himself in the bathroom. If he was younger, that would just be more work for me. My 2 year old daughter acts like she is ready to be trained, but I am just going to take my time. I don't need the stress that I went through last time.

[lizardek]

Move to Sweden. If your child isn't potty-trained by the time he's fine, the government PROVIDES YOU WITH FREE DIAPERS FOR LIFE. I swear! It's true!

[lizardek]

FIVE! I meant to write FIVE. Not 'fine.' Darn it. It's still true, though.

[Troy]

With our first daughter, potty training was a breeze, but for our second it was a nightmare. Fortunately, we have a great pediatrician who really helped us by driving home the point that each child will adjust when he/she is truly ready. As such, we relaxed and the arguments, the battles, the stress all went away. We bought pull-ups for a few months longer than we wanted to, but in the end she was fine. The simple lesson I learned: If the child is ready, it's easy. If it's not easy, the child might not be ready.

[Marivic]

I potty-trained my first at 17 months, as the second was on the way and I didn't want 2 in diapers. Second verse, same as the first (something about 2 in diapers just wigged me out). My third pregnancy ended up in, yup, twins, so so much for that idea. Anyway, it took about a week with each of them, and what I remember working was "mommy as example." Basically I'd have them in there with me and offer up all sorts of goodies for all of us whenever we pottied successfully. (My oldest however, dumped apple juice in there one time and really had me convinced she'd peed. The first of many cons...).

They're 17, 15, 14 and 14 now, I'm pretty sure it stuck. Good luck! Happy pottying!

[Crystal]

Having had the same notion about John when he was 2.5, I decided it was time to start. Except he hated the little kid potty, he wanted to go on the big one like daddy.

Having purchased the handy dandy convertible seat lifts off to fit on the big commode training potty, this was no problem. We were prepared.

One day, Daddy being even lazier than I, decided to just put him up there, sans smaller toilet seat. Which worked, so Daddy kept at it. Until one day, John lost his balance, fell in, and thereafter SCREAMED BLOODY MURDER if you as much as thought about suggesting he use the potty, big or small.

Being thoroughly lazy folk, this continued until John was 4.5, when I had notions of him going to college in depends. I had for some time thought what was needed was old fashioned thick cotton training pants, but look high or low, none were to be found. The problem was, our dear son, being the exponentially lazy son of two lazy parents, didn't give two hoots about the fullness or contents of his diaper. As long as he had Lego aplenty, life was good, leaky diapers be damnned.

One wonderful day I mentioned this woe to a dear cloth diapering friend, who said "I have tons of those cloth pants! Here, have some!". Which I did. We took them home, and (guilt guilt) I explained to John that these belonged to Friend X, so he needed to use the potty, because he didn't want to ruin friend X's underwear.

We tried them on, and John proceeded to immitate Old Faithful. However lazy he may be, John is also a candidate for the next great OCD medication trial, and a total neat freak. So he stood up, and wailed.

We proceeded to the bathroom, got him cleaned up, and tried on a second pair.

About 2 hours later, he proceeded to repeat the process, but now knowing the feeling of soaked and clammy, stopped in time and asked to go potty. Voila. He was potty trained. We did use the cloth pants one more day, but they were unnecessary.

He did stay in pull ups for outings where speedy access to a toilet was questionable, and during sleep for about 2 more years, and then suddenly he was dry at night, and the process was complete.

The moral of this tale is, birth an obsessively clean kid, wait until strangers give you dirty looks as your 4 year old toddles by with a "swish swish" and then let nature, and increased cognitive ability take it's course.

[MelG-F]

PT doesn't stand for potty training, it stands for Patience Training for parents. My just-turned-3 daughter is about 90 percent PT'ed. I won't give her the other 10 percent because when she gets really, really involved in something, she forgets she needs to go and has an accident.

At first, I just decided to be always encouraging but didn't use a reward system. I figured when she was ready, she'd get it. But one day I decided it was time for Big Girl Panties. Yes we had lots of accidents, but thank god we had wood floors. Oh, there were times I wanted to bash my head in if I had to clean up ANOTHER accident, but I just gritted my teeth and cleaned it up. And cleaned it up again and and again.

It was weird, but she seemed to do BETTER when we were out and about. I don't know if it was because we were better at reminding her to go, or it was the allure of the public potty.

I"m not even thinking about going pull-up-less for naps and bedtime. Any attempt always results in wetness.

[laura]

I have no advice, as I was an utter failure at potty training. My kid finally started peeing on the potty at about four, but still wanted a pullup for poop til he was almost 5 (he had chronic constipation issues which were physically solved, but still presented a psychological hurdle). One day, there was the end of my rope, and I said calmly "If you mess up those pants, I'm going to beat the crap out of you." Voila. 5 minutes later, he pooped on the potty. So if they get old enough, you can just threaten them. By the way, he's 12 now and very well-adjusted.

[-erica]

Please forgive if these are repeat suggestions.

I used 3 M&Ms for Pee, and 10 M&Ms for Poop. My older son was pee trained for the longest time before he would even think about pooping. And when it happened, it just did. The day before before we went on a 10-hour car ride. Made me a nervous wreck. The moral of the story is, it will happen when it is MOST inconvenient. My younger son learned both pee and poop together, but he had his big brother to watch. Try Cheerios floating in the big potty, that he can stand and "aim" at - makes it a game. You definitely need a stool, makes the big potty height less intimidating. My kids loved the Bear in the Big Blue House "Potty Time" video. I used pull-ups for only about 2-3 days each time, and then it was on to underwear. I would suggest putting him in MORE clothes rather than less. My younger son seemed to really detest the layers of heavy sodden clothing, and I think trained quicker from sheer uncomfortableness. It was so funny to watch him walk/waddle. Also, when he does poop for the first time, Make a Party! Call a family member, and put your son on the phone, to report his big event.

My first son was 3 3/4 when he completed PT and second was 3 1/2.

[Sheryl]

I'm potty training my 3rd child now. This is what I did: 1)Give m&ms when they make a deposit in the potty. 2)Put them on the potty every 2-3 hours. 3)Don't sweat it.

What they wear, how long they wear diapers at nap time, etc. is up to you, and how much laundry you feel like doing. Like every other developmental marker, every kid is different. He know's how to pee and poop, eventually he'll do it on the potty. And there's not whole lot you can do to expedite the process without being really anal. (Ha! Anal!)

[Sheridan]

Um, can't help as son is only 9 weeks old, so am going to find dictionary to look up sententiously (am very impressed with your long words, can see why Patrick is soo clever!)....

[Lisa S (et al, aka Stolidoli)]

I SUCK at potty training. Riley trained himself, with the help of full-time daycare, at 2.5 years old. Bella is 3 and one month and I'm about to beat her senseless. We use M&Ms but obviously not enough.

Anyway, Bella is a very independent kid, and is therefore not swayed by being able to go to Summer Playground in our town, which is killing me because I need her to be OUT of the house for the mornings because it's so damn cheap.

Riley, however, has a different personality, and wanted to pt when his friends were, and so that was that. I suppose he's the one I'll need to worry about more as a teenager, but still, I'm frustrated.

Anyway, you appear to be making better progress than I am, so feel good about that. MAybe it's you and I that need the incentive? Whoever potty trains their kid first gets a bag of M&Ms!