How Do You Take A Cloud And Pin It Down

Patrick did a word problem today. He asked how many people would be at the birthday party and I said that all of the kids in his class would be there. He then asked if they would all bring their mommies and I said, yes, I thought they would. So he drank a little juice and looked at the ceiling and said, "So there will be twenty people at the party."

I made that little face I make when he says something particularly clever but I don't want to cover him in gush or anything and I said um-hmm, yes.

Which must not have been what he was looking for because he then explained his reasoning to me using a funny growly voice that I wish I could reproduce in some font but I cannot, "There are ten kids in my class and if they each brought a mommy that would be ten mommies and ten plus ten equals twenty."

I said, "Yes yes yes you are very smart and funny and nice. Now keep your spoon upright so both the Cheerios and the milk make it into your mouth together."

He said, "You can't add Cheerios to milk, Mommy. One Cheerios plus one milk does not equal anything."

"It equals breakfast," I said, all chirpy, like an ass.

"One plus one equals two so it would equal two breakfasts. If it did. Which it doesn't."   

OK then. I love being patronized by someone who is three feet four inches high and requires me to brush his teeth. Love it.

When I picked Patrick up from school on Tuesday they were all abuzz with the sensational news that Patrick is reading. Apparently he commandeered story time and read the book. His teacher asked me how long he had been reading at this level and described most of the things I have already told you about, like sounding out things he does not recognize and making mistakes based on skipping ahead in the sentence. She said that she has never had a child in a three year old class read with his apparent mastery and she reminded me that he is the youngest in the class. She suggested we get him tested. Tested for smartness. I cannot even write the word she used because it makes me feel all crawly and braggy and awful. But you get the idea.

Uh, huh.

I guess I wonder why we would do that. This is actually a legitimate question, because I really do not know. Suppose Patrick is smarter than your average bear. So what? Will school be a nightmare for him? Will it be a nightmare for us? Will quantifying this smartitude help him somehow?

Yesterday Patrick told me that he had created an octahedron out of a shape game my mother got him for Christmas (different than the last shape game I mentioned. two in total. Nana went shape crazy this holiday season. this is why Patrick loves his Nana ferociously) and I looked over and, sure enough, it WAS an octahedron. And I thought, fuck, maybe traditional kindergarten will be so boring for him that it will make him want to inhale paste until he passes out. I don't know. I know I make him seem like this miniature brilliant mind freaky freak when I write about him but he is not, really. If you could have seen him today at the party, getting down to the soul stylings of Aretha with all the other kids dancing and throwing balloons you could see how normal is. 

The only thing I am certain about is that we are putting him in this same preschool again next year. They go three mornings a week as four year olds and there is a field trip every month. This year the fours went bowling in November. Any school that will take a dozen four year olds bowling wins my life-long allegiance.

But after that I don't know. Should we get him tested? Does it matter?

I neglected to think this far ahead and now I feel like I am completely out of my parental league. 

Comments

[Crystal]

It does matter, but it doesn't have to.

Schools have this hinkey thing of wanting tests to determine lots of things.

Some schools that don't have asshats for legistlators, administrators and tax paying citizens have money to actually, you know, pay attention to the child, and figure out how to maximize his potential and all that jazz.

Personally, I'm in the test only when it's vital category, and that aplied to John's auditory processing disorder (kept getting worse), Michael's autism (ditto, although I was ready to test nearly a full two years before Kaiser actually did test so, scratch that), and Drew's speech delay, for which we are not at this time testing but I'm still sitting on the fence waffling and heming and hawing and worrying.

John's IQ was tested as part of his testing and he.... well. You know. Don't look at me, my gene pool is not thusly productive. So far it's meant diddly squat, but then again, I homeschool, so what squat would it diddle?

I suppose you could have him tested, but there's no grave harm either way. You might though want to ask the teacher what *her* objective in having him tested would be, she will most assuredly have some wonderful insights to the pros and cons in your locale.

[shannon]

Do you ever read the Adventures of Leelo and his Potty-Mouthed Mom? Because, in addition to Leelo, she has Iz the wonder daughter and she writes quite cleverly about this very sort of thing.

I'd say no to testing. I think quantifying his smartness isn't nearly as important as encouraging him to pursue learning for the love of it and it sounds like he has that down.

[Crystal]

BTW, we're all out of our parental league. It's the painful reality of each child being a unique person.

Wing it.

Books and assvice helps too on occasion. ;)

[Leslie]

The only reason I can see to do so is if he's going to end up in public school and they have gifted programs that require testing for entry. It's pretty unusual to find such before middle school or high school though so not sure it's worth the hassle otherwise.

Crystal is sooo right about all of us being out of our parental leagues! Goes with the territory. I second her suggestion of asking the teacher about the pros/cons.

[J]

I don't have a kid, but I remember distinctly thinking that kindergarten was ass-boring because I knew all the shit they were teaching us and wasn't that stupid of them to do that? I would advise (for what my two cents is worth) that testing doesn't matter. If you know he's smart and that's great, just make sure he gets into an environment where he can be challenged and still be socially accepted.

I think the best thing for kids who are above average smartness is a smaller school where they get lots of personal attention and can be challenged by a teacher individually (thus preventing needing to skip grades or some other awkward social situation). Sometimes the advanced-type programs expect too much of kids...Too much pressure, you know?

[Lisa V]

One of my best friend's, Ginger, has a daughter who is like Patrick. Really smart, but really well-adjusted. When the kid was in kindergarten she was reading and comprhending Harry Potter. Ginger has just taken it on a year by year basis. There are some things she has done that have catered to the girl's "gifts" and there have been other times that she has decided that being one of the many is the best thing for her. She is a wonderful 14 year old girl now, educated in public school.

You are doing a wonderful job with celebrating his intelligence but not over-emphasizing it. I say just stay on the path you are on, and trust your instincts about testing and everything else.

[Ariella]

I will only tell you what my experience was, and then I suppose you can make your own decisions. I read very early, like Patrick, and we have a lot of other things in common. I skipped Kindergarten and I also skipped eighth grade. I graduated high school at 16.

Although I was certainly intellectually ready for college and first grade, I suffered terribly from my social inability to relate to my peers because I was so much younger than they were. In addition, I was never able to drive in high school because of the age difference. In college, relating to my peers was also difficult because they were mostly interested in getting as drunk as possible, and I was never able to drink legally in college.

I don't know what all of this means to you. I now have two graduate degrees and consider myself fairly well-adjusted. High school was a terrible time for me, but I'm not sure if that's because of my own personality, the grade-skipping thing, or a combination of both. If Patrick is advanced, he will undoubtedly be bored in school, and sometimes that leads to problems. There has to be SOME other choice other than boredom or social ostracism, and I hope you find that medium with Patrick.

[Diatryma]

You're going to have people who go both ways on this, the smart kids needing special classes and the smart kids not needing them. The normal kids needing smart kids around and the norma kids needing smart kids elsewhere.

Find out what any testing will mean, and what various test results will mean. Find out what you're working with-- not all accelerated programs are good. Work with the teachers in any case; you'll get more done if they know who he is and what they're getting into, whether they're managing a class learning how to read and need to amuse him for half an hour or just wonder about this kid who shows up every day.

Also: icosahedron beats octahedron faces-down every time.

[Jack's Raging Mommy]

My parents let the schools do the testing, and place me in the "gifted" classes, but they never told me the scores so I wouldn't get a complex. Which worked until I did actually find out my I.Q. and began to think "there's no way I can live up to that".
So my advice is don't tell him. But I'm crazy...

[Cat, Galloping]

My nephew is just like this. He's in kindergarten now and a friend's mom who drove him home reported in an amazed way that he spelled his own last name as well as his friend's, while the friend didn't even know what is own last name was. Which is all kind of hilarious because he's been reading, writing poetry, etc., much in the way of Patrick, since he 2 or 3.

I don't think my sister has ever had him tested. Not sure what you'd do with that information. Mostly she just wants him to be able to be goofy in an age-appropriate manner and to get along with kids his age.

I'm guessing you want the same for Patrick, so maybe a test would tell you that he needs enrichment outside of school, but you pretty much already know that.

Incidentally, my sister and I were both reading at the age of 2.5 but everyone caught up by the end of elementary school and I don't think we're stand-out anythings, academically speaking, anymore!

[Amy]

I was a three year old reader and a super-smarty in grade school (gradually dumbed down later in life through general laziness). My parents actually fought my public school to prevent me from skipping classes because they wanted me to be normal. My dad tells me that when they did the testing that the school required for smarty classes, my mom cried her eyes out over the fear that I would be treated differently because of how off the charts I was. I had no clue how unusual I was until at least high school and maybe after, because my parents never let on that I was really smart. All of this was an absolute gift and gave me a perfectly normal childhood that I think is priceless -- especially when you see kids who are singled out or otherwise held up to their peers as weirdos because of their smarts. It's hard, I think, to balance the social and intellectual lives of your kids if they are super advanced in one area or the other.

The only advice I have is make sure he's being challenged. If that is what the testing is for, go for it. If it's not going to happen at school, find some other place. I went to art, science, etc. classes at the rec center for fun and it was a great way to get some extra intellectual attention outside of school.

[Kendra]

WOW, what an amazing little boy. And I think you are doing a wonderful job of engaging him on his level (whatever that might be) but not making a big stinkin' deal over him that will make him self-conscious.

I can't really see the value in having him tested. So you have a number to put on his smartnes... then what? In addition, there is a low correlation between childhood IQ and adult IQ up until kids are 7-8 years old.

Do you have any Montessori schools in your area? They are self-paced but kids are grouped with others of their age, so it might help satisfy both Patrick's intellectual and social needs.

[JustLinda]

I didn't read the other responses, but my answer is YES, you should. A child far ahead of the norm, just like a child far behind, needs a special plan to keep things progressing.

I know the g-word seems very over-used. Of five children, I have one who is gifted (well, now she's 22 and is mostly gifted at how many beers she can put away without passing out but as her mother I'm not supposed to know that). Anyway, during her school years, as much as I may have WANTED her to be normal, to downplay her ability, it just didn't work that way. The gifted have special needs and we, as their parents, are their advocates. Just as the delayed have special needs and require parents to be advocates.

It's about keep him interested and challenged in schools.

When you read about giftedness, it's scary. Rumor has it the gifted are more likely to drop out, to commit suicide, to turn to drugs. I don't know how true that is, really, but it's enough to make me approach giftedness in a unique fashion.

Oh, and my gifted kid?? She wasn't even CLOSE to reading at age 3, much less doing math.

[Jessica]

I have a lovely friend who has a "Patrick" of her own. IQ 155. A "gifted" school in their state wanted him (it would have been a boarding school), and even offered to wave tuition if they would agree to send him. They waffled, and in the end, decided against it. Part of it was the "boarding school aspect"... they didn't want their son so far away from home for much of the year ... and part of it was them wanting him to function in a "normal" environment. He's now in a regular high school, and actually doesn't do that well academically, because he gets bored easily. On the other hand, he seems well-adjusted socially, and happy with his life and friends.

The gifted school might have pushed him to live up to his potential intellectually, but who knows what being away from his family would have done. I think it is a very individual choice. Go with your guts about what feels right for your child, and don't let anyone push you either way.

[Tracy]

I know a young man with a genius IQ. His family chose to make this the focal point of his childhood. He has no identity outside of his high IQ.

A tragic accident resulted in the man being unable to fulfill his academic dreams. He is, in fact, unable to live independently. He has many physical issues, but the biggest mental issue is his block against accepting that he is still smart, but that now he is not always the top achiever in everything. He does not know how to work for knowledge. If you try to teach him something he refuses to go through the learning process, because he is unable to see that he too sometimes needs to learn. (For example, I tried to do a learning unit with him. He refused to read the material, just took the test, and failed, because he never had to read lessons before).

This is not a common thing to have happen obviously, but it is really sad to see that this man is so bound by the idea that he must be smarter than everyone else that he is limiting his own life in many ways.

I think the more Patrick has an identity outside of his IQ the better off he will be. And you've done a great job with this so far.

[Rebecca]

How lovely to have others see and appreciate the same amazing things in your child that you see and appreciate. Validation is always nice, even if it also gives you that crawly, braggy, awful feeling.

Testing on kids this young is notoriously inaccurate, and I'm not sure what a number would buy you at this point. You know that Patrick is extremely bright. You've clearly done an excellent job of stimulating him and his interests and encouraging his love of learning. If, at some point, you and/or the schools are unable to do that, or if a number is required to get him into a program or class that you feel might help to do that, that would seem like the time to test. Until then, I think a number would just increase that funny feeling -- and not make an iota of difference in the way Patrick reads, does math, or gets down to the soul stylings of Aretha.

What did you end up giving the birthday girl, by the way?

[Marsha]

I've got a foot on each side of the testing fence. On the one hand, you'll know what's what. On the other, there are risks that having data associated with Patrick's particular type of brainpower will tempt future caregivers, teachers and others to slot him into a nice, tidy box labeled "oh so smart".

My parents tested me and while the info was nice to have it didn't really amount to a whole lot - they still have to fit and claw for even the most basic level of attention. I'm not sure we'll end up testing the Boy Wonder. Not sure it's worth it.

[Calamity]

I was put into a g-class in second grade where us geeks were also around normal kids. We got to go do some really cool and interesting projects, while the other kids got to make those turkeys you make by tracing your hands. After grade school, the g-program ended and high school was nothing but a bore where because I wasn't intersted, I really didn't do anything. Please get Patrick tested so he won't tune out when he's not challenged.

[Manogirl]

It's worth it to test. Not because a child should ever skip a grade (because I kind of think that's pretty disastrous socially), but because you need to know how to keep Patrick from being bored. School is terrifyingly awful if you're constantly bored; it does lead to dangerous behaviors in some instances, and many times, terrible grades (which aren't so good when college rolls around).

If you can figure out the areas, at some point, that make your little boy tick, you can figure out ways to keep him engrossed in schoolwork. I think it's worth acknowledging that you're going to have to work harder to keep him working hard.

On a personal level, I would have died of boredom in school if not for Honors, Accelerated, and AP classes. They kept me sane, got me through high school, and got me into a good college.

[MFA Mama]

I have no frigging clue. I was a "gifted" kid and it doesn't have much to recommend it. I don't know that I did any better or worse because of that. I'll be interested to see how you handle this, because I think my Middle guy is going to be extra good with electronics; he already plays video games and can log onto a PC. At eighteen months. It's weird to watch.

[Laura K.]

Patrick ROCKS!!!!!

I guess if you are deciding whether or not to test him, the question you would want to ask yourselves is what you would do if he was (and I'm certain he will be) categorized as 'gifted'?

My personal opinion is that gifted programs are GREAT for older kids (upper-Elementary, middle, high school), but I think that it's good for younger children to be with their other peers before being separated and just spending time with other gifted kids. I think it makes them more 'grounded.' Then again, having down to earth parents who don't over-inflate the ego would make any child grounded, too, so I think you're safe either way.

[(they said my iq was 167)]

I was tested at the behest of my pediatrician when I became obsessed with words & alphabets before I could walk. then I was admitted to the public preschool for gifted toddlers (iq test an admissions requirement! blech.) but we moved away from new york to a place without any special programs at all. I spent kindergarten reading under my teachers desk, and was totally content.

you always have to do what's best for your own child while keeping in mind the greater good of society, right? if tests and labels are what patrick needs to get him something good that might otherwise be unavailable... there you go. aside from that I don't see why they are necessary.

patrick sounds absolutely delightful and sweet and charming, which is better than genius any day. plus, it is good evidence that you are doing a great parenting job already.

[Kim]

I don't think I've ever commented, but the whole "very bright child, what do we do" thing strikes a chord with me. I was a very early reader and counter, too, like many of the other commenters (I wasn't quite so spectacular at math, though. Go Patrick!). The schools I went to did not do testing for abilities, just for disabilities (disability testing was available from the state- these were Catholic schools without a lot of money), so I don't know if I was ever actually tested until I was in junior high. There weren't really any gifted programs to put me in anyway, so it wouldn't have mattered. It was, however, *very* obvious from a very young age that I was different from many of my classmates. It was obvious to me and it was obvious to the teachers and it was obvious to my classmates. Even without being labled as gifted, per se, it was clear that I was not on the same level.

So even if you don't get him tested, it's probably going to become clear very quickly that he's different in some fashion. And it's likely to become clear that *something* needs to be done about it in some fashion, because as other commenters have said, school is sheer hell when you're bored. And bored kids tend to get labled as "behavior problems", even when they really aren't (I wasn't actually a bad kid, and yet, I've got a discipline record a full inch thick from elementary school). So my advice would be that if testing him is going to be the gateway to programs that are going to challenge him in age-appropriate ways and put him with kids who are going to be more like him, then do it. If it's just for the sake of testing, I wouldn't bother, but I'd make sure to have very open lines of communication with the teachers and the school and find ways to supplement what they're doing.

[dangermouth]

I was tested when I was very young, and put into a "gifted" program. My parents were all proud and disgusting about it, and I was pretty damn pleased with myself. Then later on, they tested me again and I scored 3 points too low to get into the middle school gifted program. Stupid, but it really has affected me into adulthood. Thus began my inferiority complex. Don't do it, man. Let him show you how smart he is, don't rely on tests that misinterpret things (not to imply that I think I myself am above average by any means)

[Nik]

I was tested at age six, and my IQ put me in classes for the gifted throughout my public school career. I don't think being tested before then would have indicated much--I can remember giving the wrong answers on purpose during the last part of the test because I got sick of the questioning.

My parents never told me what my score was, and claim they have forgotten it, for which I am grateful. I am also grateful for the clever, enthusiastic teachers I routinely had as a gifted student. I am not grateful for the "smartest girl in class" label I carried, nor for the too-high expectations of people outside my family. In the end it all balanced out, so my one regret is that I didn't get to do or see much as a kid because my parents were cheap and crazy. I read a lot of books instead.

I think it's exciting to have a kid like Patrick (and to BE a kid like Patrick), but it's too soon for tests to have any meaning. I've never heard of a high IQ opening up more options for a preschooler. Just keep exposing him to new places, people, things and events. He'll figure it all out on his own.

[Andrea]

Get him tested, just so he can qualify for the "bells and whistles" kindergarten (at least in the large urban area where I live, this is key to an acceptable education in public school). But don't read too much into the numbers and percentiles. As a former "gifted student" myself, I'd say it's more important to support his interests and make sure he's not bored to death at any given stage. Finding the right level of challenge is absolutely the key with smart kids. Also, as Kim said, it helps immensely to find a way to hang out with other gifted kids.

And I agree with some of the above posters that "giftedness" tends to even out as the years go on. I was classified that way myself once, made excellent grades all the way through school, although it got harder as I got to college and grade school. But in adult life, social skills matter just as much and you start to realize all the areas you're no so brilliant in, and that even where you are smart, there's always someone smarter....

Still, my kid is the same age as Patrick. I objectively think she's above average in many ways, but she's surely not doing what he's doing. What fun for you and what a burden at the same time.

[Jul]

Wow... this is all great advice. I will have to remember it if J.Q. turns out to be Really Smart (I dunno... he'd have to cut WAY down on the drooling and chewing on his own feet to cultivate an intellectual image).

My sisters and I were stereotypical smart kids (my mind had since been blunted to the consistency of a Stage One food). I wish more than anything that my parents hadn't dwelled on our intelligence, but had rather emphasized kindness, cooperation, tolerance and personal responsibility. As it was, the three of us grew up as insufferable little bundles of raging ego and social ineptitude. It sounds like you're already doing a wonderful job helping Patrick develop his busy lil' brain without engaging in the kind of intelligence-glorification which would put him at risk for what my husband and I ruefully refer to as "gifted child syndrome". Every time I hear a kid in the natural history museum loftily elaborating on the bone structure of the ankylosaurus, my heart aches for him.

[Meganann]

test him, he sounds so bright! I think it would be good for him to have that aspect nurtured. Keeping him interested in learning will require his needs being met, which you and his teachers might be better able to do if everyone has the same expectations. You have an exceptional child. My only advice for the parent of an exceptional child is to both nurture the gift and make sure that he is also taking part in activities that he is not so gifted in (sports or arts), so that he can learn that different people excel at different things.

Good luck with this one.

[Rhonda]

Sorry this is long... There's a website that might be helpful: http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/advocacy.htm

I think it's really interesting the assumptions that people are making about what kind of testing we're talking about and what options will present themselves if the tests come up a certain way.

Patrick is a pretty wonderful kid, and judging from what other things you have said I am not particularly surprised that the G word got used.

I agree that the most important thing is that he is challenged, and that he is around kids his age who accept him.

What I know as a parent of a smart kindergartener: I don't think testing is relevant until it's time to put him into school, and then you'll have to find out from your school district as to what tests are worth taking and from whom (our school district does not accept tests administered by anyone but them, frinstance) and when (our school district, for example, has gifted-type programs that start in the first grade. There's an all-day program with more accelerated classes and a once-a-week enrichment pull-out program, and depending on test scores a child might be accepted into one or the other).

My own experience as a G. child: Being bored is the WORST. I skipped first grade (which meant I was younger than my classmates until I was almost done with college. I do not recommend this experience), and yet in the third grade I was so bored I didn't do any of my seatwork and got put in a remedial class (read: they didn't try to help us, they just warehoused us) for the fourth grade--all the while I was in a daily pull-out enrichment class, which meant I was remedial *and* gifted all at the same time. Go figure. My mom tried to fight the school system but didn't get anywhere and finally tutored me at home to help me catch up. The next year I got into a more appropriate class and the work was interesting and fun and I was able to keep up with it.

But here's the other thing: being the smartest in a class, esp. if the other kids know you are smarter, can also be the worst. It's a pretty common strategy for kids to dumb themselves down and not use their smarts, so as to better fit in. One of the other moms down the block has a son a couple years older than my daughter and she says that she put off trying to get him tested because she thought that keeping him with his peers is more important, and now she says he's kind of dumbed himself down and it's kinda too late to test him. She begged me not to make the same mistake. (I did not dumb myself down, but then again I also never learned to curb my enthusiasm and so did not fit in all that well. At the time I thought it was because I was the baby of the class but now I am in my 30s and back in school and still channel Arnold Horshack.)

[mama-beans]

I am definately in the minority here... I say get that boy tested. In the school district I grew up in, kids that were exceptional were in a TAG program... Talented And Gifted. They progressed through all the grades along with us regular kids, but were in their own class.. which challenged them, urged them to excell, and dealt with any issues they may have with their TAG status. My Best Friend got in the TAG program in the 4th grade... I did not. We both graduated at the same time, went off to College... and she is a Neurosurgeon ( sp... ha ha) and I am a SAHM.... I have always wanted to be a mother.... but a big part of me really wishes I had made it into TAG and had the intellectual encouragement she got, rather then the "you're good enough" encouragement that I got. Here, the TAG kids are almost looked up to.

[kathleen999]

My husband was tested in school and he is 160. His sister is even higher. Our bigger twin (13 months) seems to be following in their footsteps...he is saying the alphabet (up to F) and starting to count. He also pretends to read. My MIL says my husband read at 18 months. So I am going to watch how things go for you and learn from you!

One thing I do know is that gifted kids need to be challenged or they just don't learn at all. School is not the best environment for some gifted kids. My husband is a self-taught person. He knows something about everything because he reads an incredible amount. But in school, he waited until the night before things were due before starting, and always got As. It was just too easy for him.

[Em]

Patrick reminds me of my son (now 6) who is gifted. We have not yet had him formally tested and do not want him to skip grades. We are trying to balance his social/emotional needs with his academic interests/needs. So far it is going well - he has his own educational program but he stays with his peers while he does it. The G&T coordinator at his (public) school has recommended he be tested later this year so that he is formally identified as gifted and can take advantage of certain school programs - otherwise we wouldn't bother testing him - it would only confirm what we already know. We try to be laid back about it all and encourage him to do other activities (eg, sport) because we don't want him to end up feeling he can only do/be one thing (ie, "the bright kid"). Sport is also helpful because it helps him relate to his peers, who have already singled him out at school as being "different" in the classroom. Raising a gifted child can be challenging - in the same way that raising a special needs child is challenging (I've also got a special needs kid so I've experienced both sides of the coin).

Em

[Mia C.]

I'd go for the testing. I was gifted and have yet to do jack with it, but nowadays they have much more info on what to do with them, how to keep them in a normal environment, etc. My friend's 4 year-old is gifted and her Pre-K teacher has given them a lot of good books on it.
What can a test hurt? You could always pretend it never happened in front of him.

[Chookooloonks]

Oh, dear. I have no idea whether he should be tested or not. Do what's right for you.

As some food for thought: when I was about Patrick's age, my parents had the same sort of conversation with my preschool teachers that you're having with Patrick's. As a result, I ended up skipping kindergarten, and they put me directly into first grade.

As a result, I ended up graduating high school at 16, and college at 20. And I turned out fine. Yes, there were a couple of "you're too young"/"but all my friends are doing it" type fights with my parents when I was in high school, but for the most part, I never had anything negative arise from the fact that I was accelerated.

My money is on Patrick being fine whatever you decide.

[Susan]

Maybe don't get him tested, but look into schooling options in your area. I have one child who is gifted, and school is tough for her. She's far enough ahead of her peers in certain areas that she has trouble relating to them - so far I've left her in public school because I believe in public school, but she certainly struggles at times. I think she would do better at a school for gifted kids, but I don't want her on the bus 2 hours a day, and I like that she's in a neighbourhood school. If your child tests as gifted, your local public school is required, in many areas, to provide enrichment activities for them, and this could be a good thing.

[S]

I was "gifted", or whatever, and I fought it the whole way because I was afraid of being a nerd (I'm 25). But the kids in those classes thought... differently, and were much more stimulating to be around. Teachers expected more of us. And if you're around people who are smart and challenge you, you become better yourself. You should totally have him tested. It won't be traumatic or anything. You make shapes (!!) with blocks and such with timers. It would probably be fun.

[S]

One thing I wanted to add... it's much more relaxing to be smart around a bunch of other smart people. It was much harder to be when it was just me. When I was young and silly I'd make mistakes on purpose to be more like everybody else .. make sense?

[Amy]

Yikes, I think this is such a tough issue. And part of the answer to your question is driven by what you and Steve want for P -- Nobel Prize winner? Chess champion? Happy and well-adjusted, career be damned? Nothing wrong with any of those options, but I do often wonder what pushes people to "test" preschool aged children. A genuine curiousity? Or something more?

That said, and regardless of what you do re: testing, its clear that Patrick is ahead of the curve, at least re: certain skills. For what it is worth, I offer you my own experiences: I was (am?) a gifted child, and was tested as a five-year old after suprising my public school teacher by my ability to read pretty much everything she offered me. The school pushed my parents to have me skip a grade, which they resisted, frearing my late birthday combined with a skipped grade would cause me life-long social problems. I am thankful that they did not let me skip a grade (although I don't know if they spared me the social problems, but that's a topic for another discussion), yet I am painfully aware as an adult, and I struggle with the appropriate school option for my almost five-year old, that I was embarrassed by being the smartest kid in the class, often bored in school, rarely challenged, typically a frustration to my classmates and teachers due to my ability to finish any test or project rapidly (my seventh-grade teacher only called me "Speedy Gonzales" and when I took the bar exam, I finished the multi-state portion two hours before the time was up, but since they wouldn't dismiss you early, I put my head down and took a nap on my desk, much to the annoyance of my neighbors), and generally feel that the public school system failed me in many ways. Not until I was a 24-year-old law student did I finally feel challenged, interested, and proud of the fact that I was smart. I would never wish such an experience upon either of my children. It would break my heart to think they were dumbing themselves down (as I did) to fit in or felt odd because they were better (or worse) at something than another kid. I simply want them to love to learn, and be happy with who they are.

Anyway, obviously only you and Steve can decide what is right for your kid. I don't know the answer. But I do know from my own experiences that smart kids pose special challenges that deserve to be recognized and dealt with, in order to allow those kids to develop to their fullest. What that answer is, however, differs from kid to kid. But I think you should count yourself lucky that Patrick has such a good preschool, and teachers who are so in tune with him and his wonderful gifts.

[Amy]

I may be smart, but I'm a terrible speller. "Suprised" should obviously be "surprised".

Did I mentioned that I'm also an annoying perfectionist?

[Amy]

GAH -- "mention"!

No more wine (or blog commenting) for me tonight!

[Rhonda]

I read back over my overlong, rambling comments, which I apparently posted too soon... the crux of what I'm trying to say is that I think the best thing would be if Patrick could be in a challenging class with other gifted kids the same age, so he can be challenged without getting flak for being The Bright Kid, yet still be around kids who are at the same developmental stage.

If he skips grades he is at a developmental disadvantage with respect to the other kids (e.g. attention span, coordination, size and strength), and could also find it a social disadvantage as well, since he will always be one of the last to reach each age-specific rite of passage.

When you're a grownup the developmental stuff averages out, and you actually get rewarded for being bright. But skipping a grade is a bit of a hindrance up 'til that point.

[Samara]

The dreaded "G" word... I was labeled that at an early age... I apparently wowed the teacher who did the testing for kindergarten. I have no idea what my IQ is. I know that I felt out of place most of grade and middle school. Then I took the SAT's... in 6th grade and scored high enough to get into the Math and Science Center... (basically a gifted and talented haven that spent half the day devoted to advanced math and advanced science) I loved it! I still have fond memories of those days. I was not the smartest in the group. I was right in the middle and there were a couple kids that you just looked at and thought "FREAK" but truthfully those freaks were great. Mainly because some were more intelligent than I, others a little less... but we all knew we had something in common.

To this day my coworkers think I'm a bit of a freak... they've termed the nickname "Smarty pants" in reference to me... I have a weird almost perfect memory and it freaks them out. Sometimes I enjoy that. Other days it gets old.

Bottom line... do what you need to do to nurture that wonderful intelligent little boy, so that he can LOVE learning and reading... though with that alphabet fetish I think you're well on your way to accomplishing those things.

Your kid is effing smart...you don't need a test score to tell you that. But I'd get him tested anyway. Otherwise, he'll be yawning his way through those "Dick and Jane" books they throw at him in 1st grade.

[margalit]

I was wondering when this post was coming. From the first time I read about your son, I knew he was gifted. Not just a little bit gifted, a LOT gifted. And yes, testing DOES matter if you have a child who is exceptionally or profoundly gifted, as I'm betting you do. I can tell you a lot about why, but so many people have such negative opinions on giftedness that it just isn't the place. So let me recommend that you read this web site, which will explain why testing is important, and about giftedness, the ranges, the differences, what kind of schooling works and what doesn't, etc.

www.hoagiesgifted.org

As the parent of a profoundly gifted child, I am happy to share what I know about testing a young kid, and about trying to educate a PG kid. I'll also help you find mailing lists that are appropriate for your questions.

[FlippyO]

I'm in favor of testing too - one, out of curiosity; and two, if he needs to be tested to get into any special programs. I was tested in elementary school (3rd grade maybe) and all I remember is the test was kind of fun. After my parents got the results, I was put in the gifted program in elementary school. It was once or twice a week, where a group of us left our regular classes to do special projects. An archaeological dig, a Stop Motion Animation movie, some field trips, etc. It was fun, opened our minds a bit creatively, but didn't really separate us much from our peers. This was at least thirty years ago, so I have no idea what programs are available now in public schools.

I was in gifted classes throughout junior high and high school, but was a lazy underachiever. Was? Ha. Am.

Anyway, the test doesn't have to lead to anything other than you being more informed about Patrick's strengths. It's obvious to everyone that he's gifted, so you aren't going to get any surprising results.

[jenny]

Hi, I think I've commented here a couple times but anyway here's what I think.

*puts on developmental psychologist hat*

You only need to get him tested if you are worried about him for some reason or if you are trying to get him admission into some special school or program. Otherwise, why bother? Once he enters school they may want to so that they can "place him" where he "belongs." I have my own thoughts and opinions on that particular practice with smarty pants like your Patrick but that is neither here nor there.

My semi-professional assvice is this: Children who are particularly smart are often bored in school and this can, at times, lead them into a couple undesirable situations. 1. They start to act out. 2. They want to fit in and pretend to be stupid. 3. They refuse to fit in, show off their brainyness, are unhappy and become teacher's pets. These situations are not inevitable, even if you just ignored his abilities and sent him straight through your local public school system, but it can happen.

The best thing to do for a kid like Patrick is to try to avoid the boredom situation, by supplementing his education yourself or through extracurricular activities that he enjoys. Give him all the games and toys he likes, encourage him at all times and make sure that whatever school he is in pays attention to him and his needs, whatever those needs are.

I love your stories about him.

[Jeanne]

I wouldn't have him tested.

I was tested as a young child. Then, I was pulled out of my regular classrooms and taught one-on-one. Do you know how lonely that is?

In highschool, I was still being pulled from the regular classroom. So, I rebelled. I stopped doing school work, I stopped responding to the teacher, and, later, I started leaving the school any chance I could.

Children with high IQs are no different than other children. They need the classroom setting for more than just learning, just like all the other kids.

By the way, I was reading at the same age as Patrick and my speech? Not so great either.

[Crystal G]

I was also reading at three and blew my kindergarten teacher away. I was moved up to first grade after one month. Of course, that was almost 30 years ago, and it seems that children today (of which I have none, yet) are operating at a more advanced level than when I was in school. So, I don't know ... does that make me ... AVERAGE?!?!?!?! It pains me to consider it, but maybe. Anyway, I was not emotionally mature enough to deal with the grade promotion. I remember in first grade that I had to pee really bad and I walked up to the teacher's desk to ask if I could go to the restroom. She was talking to another student and I was too afraid to interrupt her and she wasn't getting the hint from my little 'I-have-to-pee' dance. So, I stood there until I peed my pants. In first grade. I've blocked the rest of the story from my memory, so I can't tell you what she did. My point is, I was never able to forget the fact that I was younger than my classmates. They all seemed like mini-adults and I felt so far behind. Also, once they found out how easy the work was for me they treated me like a freak. That still persists to this day. I am still working on my Bachelors degree (I'm 33 ... life got in the way) and therefore I work amongst other non-degreed people who also treat me like a freak sometimes. I'm one of those annoying people who knows a little bit about every subject there is and seems to always have all of the answers. Sometimes I forget to "dumb myself down" and I get peppered with "how the hell did you know that" until my face turns red. It takes me right back to grade school. What I'm trying to say in this rambling is that I am very proud of my intelligence, but I do feel that it sets me apart a bit and the emotional maturity issue was very hard for me to deal with. If I had to make the same choice for my child, I think I would choose against grade promotion and make sure that they were receiving plenty of stimulation outside of school to stave off boredom. Just my opinion, as a yet-to-be parent.

[electriclady]

I went to a Montessori school from ages 5-10, and it was exactly what I needed at that age--small classes grouped by age (4-6 year olds, 6-8 year olds, 8-10 year olds, etc.) where you worked at your own pace in subjects like reading and math. I was writing short stories at age 5 and doing algebra at age 8. Most importantly, I didn't see anything unusual about it, because everyone at my school did their own thing. Unfortunately, I switched to a large public school starting in 6th grade and it was, um, a bit of a disaster. I was totally unprepared for the shark-infested waters of 6th-grade public school social life (like Lindsay Lohan in Mean Girls when she first starts going to school? that was me), and I hated, HATED being singled out to do "special" individual projects. I know the teachers were only trying to challenge me--as were my parents, who tried to force me to do correspondence classes in college-level math--but it made me feel like even more of an outsider. It was one thing to go at my own pace when all of the other kids were doing it too, but in an atmosphere where conformity was valued above all, I just couldn't take it. We had G&T classes, which helped, but it wasn't until I got to high school and got a little self-confidence (and started looking forward to college, which ended up being amazing) that I was able to embrace my intelligence.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that, to echo other commenters, it sounds like you and Steve have been doing exactly the right thing in encouraging Patrick to indulge his special interests, but not making a huge fuss over it and making him hyper-conscious of his "specialness." Smart matters a lot when you're in school, but the older you get, the less of a difference it makes, and now, at age 32, I value a lot of other qualities in a person a lot more. Giving Patrick a happy, normal childhood (which you are doing an amazing job at, it seems to me) is the best thing you can do. Helping him to be a strong, confident person will enable him to make the most of his gifts no matter what kind of environment he is in.

[Jessica]

I might have him tested at my own expense and not at the school's at this stage in the game. He'll qualify for all the G/T programs (gifted/talented) for sure later on but maybe at this stage you could find programs in your area that cater to this type of intellect with 3 year olds. I'd keep him in regular classes and with regular kids but maybe he'd enjoy some more stimulation in math and reading with a group of kids. Try your science centers or local universities to see if they offer any programs. Good luck - he's smart AND cute? Watch out for those girls...