Lazy

Hello! Sorry for the delayed silence over here, I was busy getting my ass kicked by the beautiful state of South Carolina.

Patrick was sick in the beginning (high fever and sore), I had a bleeding episode, the toenail on my big toe is ripped diagonally but is still hanging on, there was a sunburn, morning sickness, a consistent inability to stay awake past 9:30... blah blah.   

anyway, that is where I was and what I was doing. You didn't miss anything.

The bleeding went away, although as recently as this morning there was, well, I guess I would call spotting. So faint as to be almost imperceptible but it is there. I am not worried about it, though; I guess because I have never miscarried that way and I am too limited in my imagination to whip into a froth about something without a personal tragic point of reference. 

Ultrasound in one hour with my RE. I am more excited than nervous, so I think I am expecting things to be plodding along as they should (famous last words, right there). I need to get a REDBOOK post up later so I will update there this afternoon, either way.

A couple of questions for you:

1. Do you know of any good, open-ended car track sets? Like for Matchbox cars and that ilk? Patrick loves his Geotrax train tracks and I want to find something similar but car related for his birthday. All the ones I can find can only be assembled in one way (like an oval track, for example). If you can think of anything I would be grateful.

2. I signed Patrick up for two different camps this summer. One is the summer extension of a local Montessori school. I signed Patrick up half days for three random weeks. I think he will like it as it sounds like a version of his preschool: art, waterplay, snack, nature walks, etc. Pretty low-key and Patrick will really like having new kids to play with. I feel good about this one.

The other thing I signed him up for his a YMCA camp. It said it was for ages 4-5 and it lists a slew of cool activities like archery and canoing. Much more camp-like, in my mind, than the Montessori and I thought Patrick would enjoy doing some bigger kid stuff for a change. But I just got the handbook and I am worried, hence the question (which is coming. bear with me). For starters this camp goes from 9 until 3. Patrick has never done a full day before and while he has never had problems separating I am not sure if it will be too much for him. They have a list of things he will need to bring, including his own insect repellent, water bottle, lunch, rain gear and sunscreen. They note that they will remind kids to reapply sunscreen throughout the day. I laughed.

Patrick is a wonderful person and a joy everlasting but he could not reliably apply his own sunscreen under any circumstances. I can only assume he would spray the insect repellent directly in his eyes. And don't they know that small children need to have their clothing lightly sprayed with repellent rather than have it saturate their soft, absorbent skin?      

Some of the Y classes Patrick has done have been run by well-meaning but completely lackadaisical college kids, such that one sports class resembled nothing so much as visiting day at Bedlam. I am trying to picture one such instructor as the only thing standing between Patrick and mosquito-bitten, sunburned dehydration and the image makes me feel faint. So I am thinking about canceling the Y and maybe adding a couple weeks of Montessori if he likes it.

But here is my question: picking up on any of the things I have said (be it your own Y experiences, or camp, or a child suddenly going all day to anything at just-turned-5) please tell me what I should do. Maybe I am over-protective? I worry that I baby Patrick (hence his refusal to zip himself into or out of anything) but I also worry that he still needs some babying.

He just seems a little... LITTLE to suddenly be in charge of his own water bottle. But I am willing to be advised to the contrary.

Comments

[Kelly]

It really depends on the Y. We had a horrible experience last year. My son lasted only two days. The first day it rained and he was forced to take a 3 hour nap (He was FIVE!) and the second day he came home terribly sunburnt (He's black to boot - if he'd been a freckled face Irish kid like he's parents it would have been much worse).

[Christine]

I used to be one of those lackadaisical college kids pretending to be responsible enough to take care of a group of four year olds. I remember very, very few crying episodes, and seem to think that the kids did remarkably well -- we used to trek them all over the city and parks, we helped them when they needed help, and they laughed and played. I don't remember a single situation where a kid couldn't hack it and we left him to fend for himself -- it wither just did not happen or we helped the kid. I'd say try it -- if he just doesn't fit in you can pull him out. But I think kids adapt to their situations pretty well if given a fair shake.

[mimi smartypants]

What's the ratio on the Y camp? If it's a really small group I find it hard to believe that the counselors wouldn't give the kids some kind of help with all those practical-life details.

And are you SURE he couldn't apply his own sunscreen? Or drink when he's thirsty? Maybe I just have a crazy "I CAN DO IT" kid, but she's four and those concerns wouldn't cross my mind. (I'd have different concerns about an all-day camp, though! It all depends on the kid.)

Interestingly, Montessori is ALL ABOUT the doing-it-yourself. If Patrick were in a Montessori all-day school, he would definitely be expected to zip up, etc. At least that's been my experience (but maybe Nora's Montessori is all hardcore and shit).

[Jb]

I'd go with Montessori for this summer. He's got loads of time to learn how to do his sunscreen and water and all....and it is a long day. He'll have that soon enough.

Good luck with the ultrasound!

[Jen]

One year, the idea of my son boarding a bus and going to pre-school (hosted by the public school) freaked me out so much, I cried and kept him home. The next year, it was a simple thing, and I put him on the bus and waved.

Listen to your own comfort level-- I agree with some of the commenters above that he would probably be FINE at the Y-camp, but you don't need the added stress right now.

He has plenty of time to grow up, eh?

He can do it. Let him try!

[Ruth]

We've had hit-or-miss experiences with Y camps. It completely depends on the staff. For a session of 4 and 5 year olds, though, I'd think they'd help out with sunscreen. (That said, I just discovered continuous spray, no rub sunscreen, and that stuff rocks so much that I even blogged about it this morning. Consider that as an option.) If it was me, I'd go check out the staff, tell them your concerns, then go with your gut after seeing their reactions. I had the same reaction as mimi smartypants to the Montessori - I'd be surprised if they wouldn't expect him to do things himself there, also.

As for the all-day thing, I have no idea. My oldest is 5 1/2 and loves the independence of being gone all day, but is bone-tired afterwards. Will he be in all-day school next year? Might be a good transition to try it out for a couple of weeks this summer.

Eagerly looking forward to good news later...

[Karen]

Julia, you're probably going to have to meet the Y counselors before you can really judge. Each camp program is different, and I would say that the director sets the tone with who s/he hires to help. I would hope that for the youngest kids the counselors are prepared to assist with whatever lotions need applying.

In our experience, sunblock is applied before we leave home and I have no expectation that it will be applied again. Bug spray same deal. However, we live in the deep south, and no camp lets the kids outside to play after lunch. Too hot!

[Bobbi]

I have had the same worries in the past, and my kids have surprised me each time - you'd be amazed at what they can and are willing to do when "everybody else" is doing it along side them. You can always yank him if it seems too much, but I'll bet you won't want/need to...

[katie]

Do you have the single-application sunblock there? It's supposed to last at least 6-8 hrs...

[Deanna]

Doesn't anybody remember the days when our parents pushed us out the back door during the summer and told us not to come back until dinner. We drank out of the hose, turned brown as berries, scratched mosquito bites and had a ball. When did we start WORRYING so much?!?

[cursingmama]

I've sent both the kids to the local Ycamps & haven't had a single problem with the sunscreen/insect repellent/water bottle issues. With the younger kids either they do it for them or they have older kids that help. I did always slather them up with some sun/bug combo stuff (which is what I sent along)before I left them.
He'll be fine - you'll be a wreck. It's how its supposed to work. (and still works when you send them to high school)

[Sally]

No input on the camp, but for the car situation, we hated the sets where you are forced to assemble track in one configuration. We discovered recently that Hot Wheels has a "classics" off-shoot where you can buy a pack of straight track (I think 10 pieces per pack) and connectors to be assembled as you wish, like when we were little (though I resent the "classics" thing a bit). We bought two sets and together with the curvy tracks from the sets we have, miniature automotive creativity can drive free in our home again.

[Jan]

I worked at a summer camp in college and our kids were older (overnight camp, youngest campers were going-on-7) but I can pretty well predict that they'll expect Patrick to do his own sunscreen and insect repellant but not EXPECT him to do it, if that makes sense. In other words, if he doesn't do some safety-related thing, they'll do it for him.

That said, they probably won't do it the way (with the meticulousness and care) that his loving mother would do it, so if that's going to bother you, you'd probably be better off sticking with the other thing.

One of the ONLY things I think is positive about going back to work and leaving my kids with a random stranger so she can raise them (ha!) (other than the fact that we have a roof over our heads and food on the table) is that I have been forced (dragged kicking and screaming) into the idea that someone else can do things a different way than I do it and my kids will be OK with it. It might even be good for them.

My experience with the youngest kids at camp was that even the ones who needed a lot of help at the beginning were pretty darned self-sufficient by the end. So YMCA camp might be just the ticket to getting Patrick to put on his own snow pants. So to speak. :)

[maggie]

I had a mom like Deanna. When she blew the whistle, it was time to come home.

I bet Patrick will be fine - he sounds like a trooper.

[Cris]

Fingers crossed for the ultrasound!

Everyone around me has signed their child up for swimming lessons this summer. I forgot AGAIN. Good luck with the school decision.

[throwingutah]

The Thomas/Brio wooden track is just the right gauge for Matchbox wheels to fit in.
The Plan toys roadway is nice, but most of the pieces are curved so you end up with either an oval or a wiggly road, thusly:
(
)
(
)
There are straight pieces, ramps, and junctions with some of the sets, though, so you can cobble something decent together. The roadway's wide enough with the above road that his cars would have a straight shot down the middle, if he so chose.

[throwingutah]

Also, ditto the previous poster's recommendation of the orange track+connectors. We had a ball with those when I was a kid (a "classic" kid, evidently). Every child should have the experience of inadvertently launching a Matchbox car in an unexpected direction!

[Becca]

I guess it depends on the camp. My sister spent last summer chasing after 3 and 4 year olds and they did everything for them, from sunblock to socks, and while some of the kids were freaked out the first day, they had a really strong routine for activities and they were having a good time within the first week. This was all at a private camp though, not at the Y, so I don't know how much it translates.

[-erica]

I've sent my kids to a tree-hugger sort of camp from the time they were each 4 yrs old. I slather them from head to toe with bug spray and sunblock in the morning and send them on their way and cross my fingers. No, the councellors never re-apply and certainly my children don't, even now that they are a little older. It falls under the category of "hopefully what I put on them is good enough". The very first year my eldest caught Lyme Disease. We caught it early enough, and cured it, so that I feel like a Lyme disease pro and a little sunburn doesn't phase me. This is probably a terrible attitude; I hope they don't die of skin cancer someday and make me feel chronically guilty. But, I keep sending them to the same camp because they have loads of real kid fun!

[Annika]

He would probably be fine at the Y camp. But if it were my son (who is not old enough for camp yet, so I have the luxury of speculating) I think I would stick with Montessori. I like them in general.

[Vix]

Like I know anything about it but I think just turned 5 might be a little young for this.

[mimi smartypants]

A little young for what? A little young for all day? If so, I hear you but I think it depends on the kid. Five is certainly not too young to flip the cap on some sunscreen and smear it on the exposed areas, particularly after an adult gives a reminder.

I don't know why I care so much---I guess I'm just big on kids feeling competent to handle the little things that come up. Doing things for your school-aged child---like zippers and sunscreen---might not seem like such a big deal, and I'm not advocating denying a kid's request for help. But why not give them some room to try?

The camp could suck in plenty of other areas, and I might be wary of an all-day thing too. But expecting five-year-olds to attend to their own personal needs is just not a red flag.

[kimberly/tippytoes]

How many weeks of Y camp? I think I would do at least one. Like other commenters, I was one of the high school/college counselors and I found some kids had a rough start (each for various reasons), but then loved it and wanted to do more than one week. No one ever quit, but you always have that option. It sounds like a good experience for him.

I'm a hypocrite though because I am sending my four year old to a camp run by her school, but then one week at a geeky science camp. I'm not ready to send her to a Y or Park & Rec. dept. camp!

[elise]

Agree with Deanna. Wholeheartedly.

[Leggy]

Tough call- I think the Y camp activities sound good and would be fun for Patrick, but expecting him to put his own sunscreen/bug spray on is ridiculous. I wouldn't trust my son, who is 6, to be able to apply his own sunscreen. With his camp, I spoke to the camp nurse and she told me to put a note on his health form saying he needs sunscreen reapplied 3 times a day. Maybe you can call the camp and discuss this with them?

[MichelleL]

Another former counselor who applied sunscreen, helped with socks (and underwear) after swimming, and made sure they kept drinking during the day. But it was a very small, private day camp and I never had more than 8-10 kids in my group, so it may be different with the YMCA.

Is there any way the Y could get you in touch with a mom with a similarly aged kid who went last year so you could ask about their experience?

[dianalyzer]

I am usually an "it will be far easier for him than for you" kind of mom, but I know the camp of which you speak. My daughter went there with a buddy and did fine one year (after K) and went the following year with 2 additional friends. The 1st year was OK, but temps were in the 90's and the pool was closed 2 days - my child lost her water bottle on the bus and therefor did not drink - all day (9a until she got home at 5p - after the return bus ride). When I called the director assured me that there was water available for the kids who forgot/lost drinks, and he would remind the counselors to encourage drinking. The second year she was left behind once and later that week the whole group was left behind by the lead and junior counselors. All of this turned out OK in the end - she arrived home safe, didn't end up hospitalized for dehydration or anything - but, she wouldn't go back. So, even though I agree that the counselors are well-meaning and the director very quick to apologize and do what he can from an arm's distance, no, I would not feel comfortable sending a wee one who just turned 5.

[Rebecca]

Can he technically handle the Y camp? Absolutely. Does he *need* to? Debatable. Personally, I think I'd hand the camp brochure to Patrick and ask him to read it and tell you if it's something he wants to do. 5, in my experience, is all about owning their own decisions. If Patrick's motivated enough to do all of the fun camp stuff, he'll note that he needs to apply his own sunscreen and likely behave accordingly; going to this camp was his choice, and the brochure will have informed him that that's what kids do there. Things always go smoother around here when my 5 year old thinks that what she's doing was her idea... :)

[yanicka]

Stop babying your son and let him learn!!! and with twins coming...it's not too soon to let him do things for himself

[Mary]

While I agree with Deanna in spirit, really, (I wouldn't trade my childhood 's unsupervised all-day summer adventures for anything) I have to pipe up about the sunscreen. I used to get kicked out the door and come back brown as a berry, too. Now I've had, what, four moles biopsied? And my brother has already had skin cancer? The ozone ain't what it used to be. I don't think it's at all weird to worry about sunscreen (though I bet if you talk to the director he/she can allay yr fears Julia).

Good luck with the ultrasound!

[Anita]

I know I'm supposed to be concerned about the Y issue, but I'm stalking for the next u/s.

[June]

My boss runs a private day camp for kids aged 3 to 6. We help them all with the bug spray/sunscreen application because it's just quicker that way, but most of them manage to do everything else by themselves. A few of the younger ones need help changing for swimming but you'd be surprised how quickly they learn to be independent when Mom's not around! :)

[Kristin]

Tricky. On the one hand, of course he's capable. But then again, my 30-year old sister just showed us her striped-sunburn legs from where she missed with the spray sunscreen.... Maybe talk with the Y people about how much help the kids get doing these takes "themselves"? How often the counselors remind the kids, "Now every body take a drink!" and "OK, who needs the bathroom?" and "Here, let me double-check to make sure you sun-screened your ears!" I can think of so many instances (of my own, and with friends' kids) in which the simplest task becomes overwhelming when it's out of a kid's routine. (Mom sends you with a snack, but your snack is different from everybody else's, so you don't eat it. Or nobody explains that you can raise your hand and ask to go to the bathroom...so you don't go. Or they do explain it, but you find it embarrassing, so you don't go.) So it's great, I think, to encourage kids to bust out, so that they learn to do what they need for themselves...as long as there's a really good safety net, in the form of counselors who remember what it was like to be a little kid.

Good luck -

[Laura]

1. Darda race car sets. My 5 and 3 year old boys love them. Infinite track layouts and cars that wind up and go on their own. I bought our original set and expansion packs at a local, independent toy store. They're not available at Toys R Us but you could probably find them on-line.

2. Good luck with the camp decision. In my experience with my children (ages 5, 3, and 1), they are ready for things before I realize it. My oldest didn't apply his own sunscreen until he was 5 (I never thought to ask him to try) but now my 3 yr old is pretty good at it.

Hoping for a reassuring ultrasound for you!

[parodie]

My experiences working at camps was that any camp geared at 4/5 yr olds knows what they're getting into - tying shoes, applying sunscreen/insect repellant, checking that hats are being worn, reminding the kids to drink water, etc. Unless it's a poorly run camp (which _can_ happen, of course, but is pretty rare), they will expect to need to help kids with stuff as necessary.

Even 7, 8, 9 yr olds occassionally needed help applying sunscreen, as I recall. I wouldn't worry.

[Beth]

If it were my kids? I wouldn't do Y--I would stick with Montessori. My girls just turned 5 and are pretty self-sufficient, although when it comes to the great outdoors, they've not had the experience of having to apply their own sunscreen or monitor their water intake--they've always had parents or preschool teachers to do that for them. I'd be worried that my kids might not remember or take seriously the need to keep drinking their water and reapplying their sunscreen unless they had frequent and liberal reminders from an adult. (The first time I went away to summer camp at age 7, I disregarded my mom's warnings to use sunscreen and I ended up in the nurse's cabin with sunstroke.) Depending on the adult/child ratio at the Y camp, you may or may not get an adult who will remind Patrick.

On the other hand, it does sound like a fun camp, and at some point Patrick has to learn those self-sufficiency skills. Maybe try it for a week or two and see how it goes? You can always lather him up with that sunscreen/bug spray combo stuff they sell--buy the highest SPF they make, cover him with it first thing in the morning, remind him to reapply later, and hope for the best. Oh, and make him wear a hat.

Good luck with the u/s! I will be anxiously waiting to see what happens!

[Marsha]

re: the Y - we did three weeks of Y camp last year and are doing none this year. The kids all seemed nice and stuff, but never quite on board with making sure they finished the day with the same kids with which they started and I was never comfortable that my son would be waiting in one piece for me at pick-up. And, I never did find a grown-up who professed to be in charge. It may depend on your Y, but lackadaisical is one thing for my daughter's indoor winter "ballet" class and quite another for my son's archery camp, you know?

Re: tracks - some Brio- and Thomas-compatible tracks come as train track on one side and roadway on the other. I can't remember how we came to have ours, probably googling something like "thomas tracks that are roads on the other side".

Re: morning sickness in South Caroline. Oh, I did this one! And my traveling companions insisted on shrimp bakes, like, every night. I spent a lot of time in my room, face down in a pillow and chewing on ginger that week. Pregnancy is the only time I ever managed to lose weight on vacation.

[SarahD]

I dunno. This doesn't seem to be a popular opinion, but I do think 5 could be a bit young. Of COURSE our mothers shoved us out the door without a second thought, but that was before everyone learned your childhood sun exposure could lead to skin cancer and mosquito bites could lead to encephalitis.

On the other hand, you could do some trial runs with Patrick until the camp starts, putting on sunscreen and bug spray, etc. And like someone else said, do check the ratio of kids to supervisors.

[WendyP]

I agree that P should read the brochure and decide for himself. Six hours isn't really all day; it's only a couple of hours longer than a half-day preschool. It could be the highlight of his summer.

If he decides he wants to do it, maybe have him practice putting on sunblock under your supervision first?

Where are the freakin' ultrasound results, already? Gaah!

[Becky]

The decision, obviously, is yours, but here's my 2 cents on going away to camp. I went to a lot of camps in my youth. My parents did everything in their power to keep me out of their hair during the summer, and I equally enjoyed escaping from them. However, I'd been staying away from them (over at my grandparents house and such) since the age of 3 months. I had never had any sort of separation anxiety at all and "homesickness" was not a concept I could comprehend. However, as I grew older I came to realize that other camp going kids were not as well prepared. It eventually got silly, to the point where there were 12 year old girls at my camp bawling on the floor of their cabin and begging the counselors to let them call home. Now, if you're seriously concerned about the quality of care Patrick will get at this day long camp, then you shouldn't send him (although it should be noted that any sort of camp without a few bug bites and/or sunburn is no camp at all). Regardless, there is no time like the present to start working on day long separation. Sooner than you want to imagine he will be gone at school all day, and it's best to have him used to that kind of thing by then.

[Tamsen]

I agree with Deanna too. My mom was like that. Loved every minute. I think it would be more fitting to say like Mary, I agree in spirit.

I think, as a former counselor myself, Patrick will do great at the camp. It's a longer day, sure, but I think the counselors' will take good care of him and make sure that sunscreen's applied. Of course, you can always freak the counselor/college student out by stressing the first day the important of sunscreen on your child... and hopefully they will get the message.

No boys in our family, so can't recommend on the car situation. Good luck tho there are some good suggestions.

I've been reading at REDBOOK and comment there too occ., thinking and hoping for you.

[Lisa]

Julia,

Plan Toys makes a wooden road system where the pieces slot together - similar to the Brio train tracks. I'm not sure where you can find it in the US but I'm sure a websearch would turn up some sources.

Good luck today!

Lisa

[Amy]

This may have been suggested already (too lazy to read all the comments) but a number of the Thomas railroad tracks are reversible with tracks on one side and a road on the other. This is an expensive way to set up a car track but it would allow for many different arrangements.

As for the camp, I'd say you know your kid best and if you think he's not ready then it wouldn't hurt to just wait a year. That said, I also went to camp where supervision was less than stellar and had a great time. My husband was actually one of those camp instructors (he taught archery and riflery no less - thank god they've eliminated those activities from the menu!) and nothing bad ever happened. Kids do seem to rise to the challenge in those situations.

Good luck. I'll be looking for the Redbook post. I don't think I actually ever posted before but I've enjoyed your blog forever now.

Amy

[Lisa O]

Re: Y camp - I would go for it. It'll be a good transition to Kindergarten where he'll need to be more independent and will be in a bigger group. Ys probably vary greatly (here in Seattle different branches have different reputations) so just because someone somewhere might have had a so-so experience doesn’t mean Patrick will. My girl is doing two different weeks of Y camp (a multi-sport thing and a gymnastics one) rather than the camps offered by her soon-to-be-former preschool. Our Y camps are so much cheaper than any private preschool camps! I figure if it is terrible and I decide to not send her for the second week I'll lose the deposit - so what. Patrick is a trooper - he'll probably be fine.

[Libby]

I was one of those irresponsible college students who was a counselor at the Y. In my day [you know, when it wasn't snowing 4 feet and we weren't hiking uphill 15 miles, both ways] the little ones were pretty well looked after.

I suspect if you mentioned to the counselor at the start of the week that you had some concerns with Patrick being a little young to handle some of these things, they'd help him out. The kids really seemed to love our Y camp.

My guess is that after a day or two, he'd adore it. But you know your kid best, and if you have doubts about his readiness, they by all means, send him to the other camp.

Good luck!

And yeah, we all ran out the door at the start of the day and came back when mom yelled out the back door, but we also didn't have locked doors and "where's Ped-O" websites. It's a different world. We have different issues now.

[Slim]

Could Patrick manage suncreen and bug repellent if he were applying them with towelettes rather than squirting liquid from a bottle? Surely the counsellors would be willing to open the packets for him . . .
And Buzz Off shirts or whatever they're called? Currently on sale at Sierra Trading Post?

[Jenn]

Good luck today! I tried to comment at REDBOOK, (haha) but by the time I finally got logged in (argh- so hard on that site!) and posted a comment I was grumpy enough that my post had to be deleted for profanity! Sorry about that! The bad word I used was "ass." I am glad I can say that here. Ass ass ass!

Hope it goes well today, I will be thinking about you!

[Nicole]

I'm going to ditto the above comments about checking the ratios, and be particular about it. I worked at a Y summer camp in college, and I was with the youngest group of kids, which was ages 5-6. My group was the largest at a ratio of me:15-18 which in retrospect was WAY out of line. I think they got away with it because OVERALL the counselor-to-camper ratio was reasonable, but that was only because I had coworkers with groups of fifth graders that numbered less than 10.

I'll also chime in here in agreement with mimi smartypants above. I think Patrick is probably capable of applying sunscreen with little or no assistance. And he'll keep track of a water bottle if that's what everyone is expected to do. There's a routine, and things flow more easily than you might assume.

Of course, I'll admit to being a mom who squirts some sunscreen on her three-year-old's arms and instructs, "Rub it in." (and she does it.)