Latititudes

Flippy wanted to know who was born first (Caroline.) For some reason I mentioned this question to Steve and it lead to my discovering that Edward was born a full ten minutes later than I had thought. For a year I have told people - not a lot of people, true, as it doesn't come up that often, but still - that Edward was born at 9:45 when in fact he arrived at 9:55. A thirty-six minute age gap which seems like a lot for twins but what do I know?

As Steve and I talked about it I realized that I really don't remember much about that night at all. I had some soup and I threw it up later. When they break the amniotic sac the contractions go from moderately uncomfortable to hurting like a motherfucker. You would think that they would ask about the timing of the contractions before they start poking into your spine with the needle for an epidural but they don't; they just ask you to remain perfectly still. The fact that it would be easier to do so if they started when a contraction was ending rather than just beginning seems fairly significant to me but in my vast experience of two whole deliveries I was the only one in the room who thought so. I got to cuddle with Caroline for a few minutes after she was born and then I did not see her for at least eight hours. Even the comparatively monstrous Edward disappeared for most of the night. For some reason this did not seem strange or alarming to me at the time but in retrospect you think I would have asked someone where my babies were. Instead Steve and I were in our respective sleeping spaces in my hospital room, too wired on adrenaline to sleep but with nothing to occupy our attention. We read our books until one in the morning. I could kick myself for frittering valuable sleeping time like that. Edward was born screaming his head off and he continued to yell the entire time he was in the delivery room. Now that I am getting acquainted with sassy toddler Edward (who is apparently only distantly related to sweetie-sweet baby Edward) I am no longer surprised by the vehemence of his early objections to everything.

I hated this photo of Caroline when I first saw it.

Now I no longer remember why the picture with the feeding tube bothered me so much. Just like I no longer understand why I was terribly offended when the first - and second - thing people would say about her was "Oh my god she's so tiny!"

She was really freaking small for a full-term baby. I'm just glad that she is as healthy as she is and... ah ha! I knew this was coming from somewhere... I have to admit that when we found that chest lump and the surgeon took it so seriously I was terrified that she had cancer and that it was caused by all of the goddamned fertility/preterm labor drugs I took. And I had the same concerns when she was born at four pounds. Like, did I do this to her?

Anyway, long, discursive and unnecessarily nostalgic answer: Caroline is older and, sure, that's why she laughs when Patrick drags her backwards through the entire first floor by her pajama'd feet.

Oh and speaking about fear and cancer and breasts I was supposed to follow up with my OB after the mammogram but I had to cancel the appointment due to the Great Christmas Plague that saw me huddled in my bathroom. By the time I felt well enough to leave the house my recurring breast whatsit had resolved itself. Again. So I didn't want to go into the doctor and point at the perfectly healthy spot on my breast and talk about how it had been bothering me two weeks ago and a month before that. So I did nothing. But now that duct is acting up again. So I suppose I can go in. Although having gotten the all clear from the radiologist I don't really want to bother.

Steve and I got an accidental babysitter last Saturday night. I actually wanted her for tomorrow because we have a dinner invitation but she accepted thinking that I meant the 17th. Once sorted it seemed like a shame not to use a perfectly free night like that so... we went bowling. Actually first we went to dinner, then we went and drank enough wine that bowling sounded like a good idea, THEN we went bowling. I should warn you, skill at Wii does not translate one iota, not one solitary pixel into skill at real bowling. For starters those damned balls are really heavy and then they don't roll in any direction that you might reasonably anticipate. It took me six frames to knock down a single pin and my only spare came when I sort of fell down and released at the same time.

We had a really good time. Not to knock the women's magazine genre that keeps me in, um, pencils but I have always sneered at the billion or so articles that tout the importance of marital Date Night. It seemed to me that if you and your spouse can't cobble together a pleasant evening at home for free then the relationship is hardly going to blossom just because you throw in some mini golf. However, I admit that I now think they might be on to something. Steve and I have gone through periods with semi-regular sitters and those without any childcare whatsoever and when we are able to go out alone a few times in a shortish period I find that we are eventually able to talk less about what - exactly - Caroline's diapers look like after she has consumed dairy (YE GODS) and more about whether the table next to us is on a first date (yes) and whether we think there will be a second (no.)

So we went bowling and we had fun and I said something about how very nice everything is right now. We have these three children who we wanted more than anything and we are all healthy and the future might suck in any number of awful random ways but at this particular moment our lives are good. And Steve said something and I said something and then for some reason I mentioned the dreadful mosquitoes that we get here in the summer and Steve acknowledged that he is ready to have shorter winters and the next thing I knew we started talking - tentatively but seriously - about where we might move outside of Minnesota.

I know I have already told you this story but twelve years ago Steve and I sat in a bar in Oak Park Illinois and we wrote down on cocktail napkins lists of cities in which we would consider living. The first place to show up on both of our lists was Minneapolis-St. Paul. So we moved here. And although I like Minnesota very much and I love our house and friends there is nothing REALLY keeping us here if we felt inclined for a change. Steve's work is utterly portable and although it's a terrible time to sell it's a great time to buy. Besides, I have never liked the idea of being held hostage by a thing. The house is beautiful and Steve has done a lot of work on it but it's just a house. There are lots of them out there. 

Finally, and this is just between us, I was taken aback that Steve would even consider a move after swearing up and down that the Upper Midwest was it for him. After thinking about it I decided that he has a touch of the just-turned-41 angst going on. A burgeoning crisis of the middle life. So if moving the entire family to some random location is how he wants to express this trauma rather than the slightly more traditional and infinitely more irritating affair with a co-ed well, hell. I'll get the boxes.

Whether or not anything comes of it we are having fun thinking about places where we could live. So far we have ruled out Florida (no offense.) I think we would like to have four seasons, the schools need to be, you know, whatever, and I had a really bad experience in Kansas once that would take a lot of surmounting. Beyond that who knows? I think I asked this question once a couple of years ago but then it was just idle curiousity and now it's active curiosity: do you like where you live and/or where would you move if you could?   

Comments

[Elizabeth]

I live in western NC. We have all four seasons with mild-ish winters. I love it here and wouldn't want to leave.

[babelbabe]

I like where I live well enough (Pittsburgh), but I would move East (Philly, where I grew up) in a heartbeat.

[Erika]

Colorado, baby. (But don't tell anyone. It's getting crowded.)

[Beth]

I love my town (which I'm sure you can see in your stats). It's my hometown, the only place I ever wanted to raise my kids, we have lakes and woods and city and colleges, and any of the schooling options (public, various private, homeschooling) are good here; and while I never really thought I'd want to live somewhere else, I guess I could ... or would, if some life-altering event occurred.

[Christy]

I lived right outside Lexington, Kentucky for about three years and absolutely loved it. I'd move back in a heartbeat. Big enough for one large university and several small colleges, sports, arts, nice people, etc.

[C]

Athens, Ga. Liked it more without a kid. I don't want him to go to school here and I don't want him to learn to drive here and the TWANG oh lord. {I'm from Chicago, I sound it, it's he!l for some -I'm ok with that}.

In general I would not move to a town with a dysfunctional relationship with it's local university {go DAWGS!} and here is why...
1. Dissproportiate {sp?} level of young drivers who are not that good at it.
2. The idea that what university you pledge your heart to is somehow CRITICALLY IMPORTANT is dysfuntional in my mind {EVERYone in this town goes crazy - me for different reasons than most}.
3. I have a problem with the flagship school of a state that consistantly spells dogs as DAWGS. Georgia jokes aside - what kind of education is that.

[Eliza]

Totally aware that this is probably slightly out of the zone in which you were thinking of moving, but I will swear up and down and left and right that Melbourne, Australia is the best city in the world to live in. (We won a "most livable city in the world" award a few years ago and everything.) Admittedly I've lived here forever, so I'm biased. But still. Four seasons - check! (Four seasons sometimes in the same day - also check.) I live by the beach and my apartment isn't insanely expensive, and yet I can get to the city in 20 minutes on a tram. Heaps of sports, amazing culture, great educational opportunities, and the world's best coffee - I just love everything about it. Anyway - highly unlikely that you guys would move here! But Melbourne definitely deserves a vote :)

[Laura]

I live in the southern suburbs of Charlotte, and I love it here. We get four seasons, but it rarely snows (a plus to me). Schools are great, housing market is lovely for buying right now, and the people are friendly. The best part though is that the whole area is so child and family friendly. I came from Boston which was hell with a baby, but here life is so accommodating. And my mom's group is fabulous with over 600 members, a full calendar, and online forums! But I still feel like I know everyone. I was terrified to move here, but it's one of the best decisions I've ever made.

[laura]

Live in the Bay Area - nice but I wouldn't call it FOUR seasons. LOVE Boston, where we used to live.

[Karen]

I'm in Atlanta, and although I'd love for you to move here and be my BBF forevah, I'd tell you to look at NC. They have mountains, they have the beach, they have four seasons.

Our jobs are completely portable too, and we've thought of moving elsewhere - except for those pesky grandparents who would follow us.

[Elizabeth]

I live about an hour south of San Francisco. We are here because I grew up in the bay area and my husband grew up in LA, so we are reasonably close to home. Plus, he's a software engineer, so there are lots of jobs, and we like the weather. We do have four seasons here, they just are not as dramatic as some people are used to. And it was 75 degrees last weekend and we went to the beach. And there is lots of good, local food year round. But we can't afford a house, at least not one we really want.

If I could live anywhere else, I might pick Seattle, in spite of the rain. But we would be far from family and that would suck.

[Issa]

I grew up in LA and we moved to Denver a little over a year and a half ago. It has definitely been an adjustment (snow, who knew it was so dang cold) but it's been so worth it.

Seasons are awesome. In LA we had two, hot and not hot. I am not a big fan of winter though.

I'd say, if you are going to do it, do it soon, while the kids are still little, because they adjust better. Mine were 3 and 5 (now 7 and 4.5) and now we also have a four month old. If they'd been older, we'd have had a hell of a time.

[Spinoff]

Really? No Kansas? You're missing out, is all I can say.This has been a dandy place to live and love and raise kids.

[Elsha]

I'll second the Colorado vote. I don't live there anymore, but I would move back to the Denver area in a heartbeat.

[Procrastamom]

We currently live near Vancouver, BC and a dream move for me would be to somewhere in Texas. During our last dump of snow a favourite blogger wrote about playing in her backyard with her toddler and the temperature was something like 85 degrees (in January!) and I about died from jealousy.

[Heather]

I live and always have within 50 miles of Seattle. I'll never (ok, never say never, but appoaching zero change) leave.
I was just asking my husband the other day why people continue to live in places with so many hardships when they could move here. [WA people are quite snobby about their state, you will find. We can't help it. But we're not snobby about ANYTHING else, so we make up for it.] We have no tornados, no hurricanes, no poisonous snakes, and just enough snow to go sledding a few times a year.

[Brooke]

I totally love Ann Arbor, MI. Would move back if I could, but lack of jobs would hurt. Plus the stupid constitutional amendment which doesn't allow the state (or it's institutions) to offer domestic partner benefits and the lack of second parent adoption makes it a no go for us. But I totally think straight people with jobs would be happy.

Chicago is also not bad, but there is more snow than I would like. But the Lake kind of makes up for it.

[Nicky]

I'm in California, where we only have two seasons and I feel very "eh" about the place, and I've been trying to convince my husband that we should move to Minneapolis. So I guess I'm probably the wrong person to ask. Still, once Minneapolis (and, probably, somewhere outside Chicago) were ruled out, I'd have to second the vote for Boston. Awesome place to live. I've been gone for 10 years and I still miss it.

[Elin]

Suburbs of Dallas, TX. We love it here, great schools, relatively stable real estate market, friday night HS football. And, hey, you'd be local - I've always wished you could come to my weekly, beloved "Wednesday Night Dinner" (which is really more like a Wednesday Night Wine-fest, kids and all).

[Mary M.]

Parenting is the hardest, and most rewarding, job there is. Although it's very difficult at its worst, I wouldn't trade it for anything.

I'm glad you shared your story. Your babies are adorable.

[pdxem]

Portland Oregon. Its become quite clean and metropolitan in the past 10 years. real estate is a bit expensive compared to the rest of the country, but we have most everything you want in a big city without a really big city feel. Its also supposed to be one of the best places in the country to raise kids.

[Jenn]

I live in Omaha, NE... I love it, since it is my hometown, but I need shorter winters too. My brother is stationed in Colorado Springs, Co... I would move there in two seconds. My other vote would be South Texas... I love it there, but it takes a special person to love South Texas. LOL

[Sara]

I live in the Bay Area and Do.Not.Like. People around here always seems surprised that I would say this aloud. Sure it's beautiful, but it's also expensive as heck, 3 time zones away from the rest of my family, and I don't feel like it's a requirement that the people around me be as liberal as I am. I used to live in North Carolina (Durham) and would love to move back, but not much opportunity there for my husband's career. We're thinking about Pittsburgh now - cheap, driving distance to the family, and it seems interesting? Maybe? I still have never been there though.

[Melissa]

San Francisco Bay Area. Love it here! It is, of course, expensive as shit, but it's beautiful.

[Molly]

Grew up in MN, visited Seattle when I was 9 and knew that's where I wanted to live for the rest of my life. Took a few decades to get here, but I still love it and I'm not leaving.

[Badger]

1. Austin, TX
2. Portland, OR
3. Nashville, TN
4. Boston, MA

(No way, no how: LA, San Fran, NYC, Las Vegas)

[amy winebarger]

Asheville or Chapel Hill NC can't be beat.

Where are y'all from? Don't you want to move closer to the parents and free baby sitting?

[Courtney]

Fort Worth TX. I've lived here my entire life and couldn't imagine living anywhere else. We have the Stock Show & Rodeo every year, this year is the 136th year of it! Schools are okay. Lots of older neighborhoods. The country is less than an hour drive. Downtown FW is awesome. Bass Hall has great plays and the Fort Worth Orchestra is awesome. Great pubs and bars downtown. I love it here.

[rosie]

new york...man, i love it here.

[L]

I live in Salt Lake City, and while I love the seasons (and our winter would probably seem mild compared to yours) I could a) use a break from winter and b) the air quality (especially in the winter) here is awful. However - up in the mountains the air is good, and you seem to have a very outdoorsy family. You could stay indoors away from the terrible air, and steve and patrick (and eventually i suppose edward and caroline) could go ski or play in the canyons and get away from the terrible air.

Anyway, I think this is a lovely city in many many ways, lots of good indoor and outdoor activities, beautiful, cheap to live in, and you can find good schools (although overall as a state we do not spend nearly enough on education).

CANADA!

[Arbutus]

Albuquerque, I love it here, not sure you guys would. I could ramble on about the virtues of this state but one of them is not the educational system which in my opinion is abysmal. My sons survived it and have gone on to do well but it nearly made me crazy!

I am a transplant here and therefore feel I can recommend Western N.C. since I have first hand knowledge of the area. You couldn't find a more beautiful place and the people are the best. Schools are good, lots of history, music, and art, things to do, places to explore and did I mention how perfectly gorgeous it is there? In every season, they are equally wonderful there. Housing is reasonable or at least it was the last time I checked which was over a year ago. You should just check it out, go for a visit.

[Kristi]

Oregon! My Dad lives in Oregon (about an hour away from Portland - Dallas, OR to be exact) and it is really nice.

[AKD]

I live in the Bay Area, but I wouldn't recommend it because it's so damn expensive. We've lived here for almost 20 years so we are quite settled, but I fantasize about living elsewhere, like Seattle or Minneapolis or maybe Sacramento. It would have to be a university town and somewhat urban. I seriously considered moving to Atlanta or Chicago or Providence, RI earlier in my life, but I'm glad I didn't. I would like to be closer to family (in Southern California) but I'm hoping we can draw them here rather than us moving closer to them.

[AKD]

Oh, and I've heard lovely things about Asheville, NC which is where my stepdad is from. It's always in the magazines as one of the best places to live, and I know a couple acquaintances who have moved there.

[Jen]

Oooh. Like Boston/New England -- but the prices, the prices. Love NYC, but we also love where we live now and can't really envision the 5 of us living in the space we could afford there (a grate?).

Hated living in Ann Arbor. It's the first place I ever lived that made me realize I couldn't live just anywhere. [And heaven knows, there will likely be a glut of zealous AA lovers here to tell you how very very wrong I am and I'll admit it was for grad school.]

Wouldn't live in the south -- the bugs are too big and I hate both humidity and well, dry heat and sunshine. (Good heavens, could I sound more cranky?!)

We (husband and I) both grew up in upstate NY. It was fine, but not so much my taste now -- though I admit that I loved the winters there.

Now we live in Pittsburgh. If we never have to leave here we'll be happy. The houses are cheap, it's urban residential (and there's plenty of country nearby). There're parks and culture and cultures -- lots of ethnic "enclaves" and we've sort of been discovered by young hipsters and their kids too (young = 20 somethings), and there are lots of old parents, too. We never had a housing boom...so we're not having a bust either, we're sort of dull in those sorts of ways -- no irrational exuberance or depression.

We love it. Worst part? We're not directly on the way anywhere, so to get places is sometimes more of a drive than it needs to be,

And going to the Super Bowl is always fun. ;-D

[Melanie]

You should move to the South. Its delightful in that there are four seasons, but winter is not WINTER. We've had the coldest winter in recent memory with temperatures hitting 8 at night but mostly staying around 32 during the day, although today was a pleasant 55ish.

Also, where I live (Chattanooga, TN) is one of the cheapest areas in the country to live in. You get a lot more house for your money here, and its a really beautiful place. Its very scenic, plenty of outdoor stuff nearby (hunting for Steve), and lots of kid-friendly activities. We're in the valley surrounded by mountains, and the TN river runs straight through town. And we're quite close to Nashville, Atlanta, & Knoxville if you find yourself needed the bigger city, but you can live on the outskirts of town and find yourself in a very small town or out in the wilderness.

Downsides include summers are humid as all get out and the local tap water isn't great. Buy a filter, use the air conditioner, all set. And of course, its the South... which is a whole different world than say, NY. But we're not the DEEP South. We're sort of cultured.

If you think you'd find it interesting, drop me an email. I'm a nanny, and I'd be happy to recommend some fun kid stuff if you ever want to try it out for vacation or something.

[Stephanie in PR]

I grew up in the Twin Cities but my husband is in The Army so we have lived in South Carolina, Korea, Washington (state), Colorado, north Carolina, Georgia, brazil, California (Monterey), and now puerto rico.

Colorado is by far my favorite. It is Minnesota minus mosquitos plus mountains. And the weather is MN lite-occasional blizzards bit it melts right away and they have 300+ days of sun.

[kenandbelly]

I've lived in:
Sioux Falls, SD (loved/hated it)
Omaha, NE (liked it)
Boston, MA (loved it, but not enough to keep living in the tiny apartment we could afford)
Northern Virgina/Washington, DC (loved it)
Manchester, UK (meh.)

I don't love where we live now-- Manchester's too darn dreary and I can't wait till my hubby finishes his graduate work here. We're thinking maybe Chicago next so we can be (a) in a great city (b) a one-legged flight from the Sioux Falls airport (my hometown, family's still there). We might try London for a year or two first, but not much longer as we want to be back stateside eventually so will try to do that before our toddler gets too far along in school. We're also thinking about Minneapolis and Denver (hubby's family lived there, loved it).

For us, it's about thinking about how we want to spend the days that accumulate into a life. We want to be in a vibrant neighborhood and not in commuter traffic. Thus, we're looking at cities where we can afford to live in a central, safe, family-friendly area that has character. That also has seasons. I still miss Boston for that-- Boston rocks out on the seasons. I always walked around Boston with e.e. cummings poems in my head (in Just-
spring when the world is mud-
luscious... )

(sheesh, sorry about the run-on comment!)

[Nellabean]

I live in the San Francisco Bay Area, but I'd desert in an instant for Madison, WI. I went to school in Milwaukee and spent a summer in Madison - L.O.V.E.D it. What's not to like about a place with a free zoo, the University atmosphere, and all the lakes (w/o the MN mosquitoes, WI ones seemed nicer to this originally-from-Illinois gal)?

I'd also move to Seattle (where all our friends have ended up) if it wasn't just about as pricy and congested as the Bay Area. From past vacation experiences I've also loved Portland, OR; Boston, MA; Bar Harbor, ME; and Prince Edward Island, Canada.

[Christiana]

I live in FL, and I love it, but totally get why you might not choose to live here - plus, it's getting really crowded and I'm not encouraging ANYone to move here (though I'd make an exception if it meant you were my neighbor, to tell you the truth - how fun would that be?) However, my SIL lives near Charlotte, NC and she loves it and I love it there. NC is always a great place to be. Used to spend my summers there.

[Jennifer P]

I second Melbourne! I don't know, it's always seemed marvelous.

I live in Austin, TX and it is indeed a really great place to live. In the city that is, not the 'burbs. Those are just like any other place in the country. The older neighborhoods are awesome in many, many ways, but have gotte really expensive and the crash is not affecting the prices.

The big drawback is that it seems like 95% of the residents have terrible allergies. Seriously, my sister moved back and her DOG developed allergies. We thought it was crazy but the vet said it was not uncommon. Who knew?

Good luck with the decision! Moving is a great way to start over and really shaek up your life. I also recommend doing it sooner rather than later b/c of the kids. My family moved from Mexico when I was 10 and it was REALLY hard to adapt.

[Mary]

I live in Erie, Pennsylvania, about two hours north of Pittsburgh and I love it here. We do get a ridiculous amount of snow because of the lake, but I like snow.
Pittsburgh is pretty wonderful as well, if a bit strange.

[Lisa]

I'd love to live in Portland, OR. It's got a lot of cultural opportunities, it's beautiful, and it's a short drive to the beach.

I too am tired of winters lasting far too long. We often have our first snowfall in October and our last in April or May. Blech.

[Hazy]

Chicago area is awsome. Winters can suck, but not as bad as Minnesota. The Evanston School District is amazing.

[lhsm]

gotta put in another vote for boston -- we have four seasons (even if the winters can be a bit cold and long), many communities close to the city with excellent schools, tons of culture, interesting people, and lots to do with kids. i'm a transplant from new york city and really feel like boston has a lot of what new york has to offer, but just on a more manageable scale with a calmer pace. plus there are a lot of great places to visit throughout new england that are just a short drive away -- cape cod, the berkshires, the maine coast, skiing in vermont, etc. -- as are providence and new york.

[jenn]

We live in Maine. We moved here voluntarily from Arizona seven years ago, and have never once regretted it. The schools are wonderful (1:15 teacher-student ratio!), the land is beautiful and not over-populated, we are 30ish minutes from the ocean and only a couple of hours from Boston. Perfectly suits my need-culture-within-driving-distance-but-otherwise-please-leave-me-alone mentality.

[bethany actually]

I'm a native of Omaha, NE. Since my husband is in the Navy we've lived in San Diego; Ottawa, ON, Canada; Virginia Beach; Tempe, AZ; Great Mills, MD (an hour south of D.C.); and San Diego again. We actually live in a suburb just east of San Diego and have loved it both times we've lived here, but I do miss the seasons. Omaha is a great town, affordable, decent schools, and the nicest people you'd ever want to meet. We also enjoyed Tempe a lot, but again, no seasons to speak of and half the year it's BLISTERINGLY HOT. Virginia Beach is a pretty nice town, not godawful hot in summers and with relatively mild winters, close enough to many historical sites on the East Coast and Disney World. Great Mills is a tiny town by a Naval Air Station, I wouldn't recommend living there for a variety of reasons. Ottawa, surprisingly, was our favorite of all the places we've lived, but Canada probably isn't one of your options.

[CharmingBitch]

After our brief (and disastrous) foray into the Pacific North West, I couldn't more vocal in stating my dislike of all things rainy, gray, months without sunshine, snowy-icy-freezing and hipster.

Come to Mississippi, J and bring those gorgeous kids. Even in rural MS there are things to do (and no, I don't mean your siblings, heh), the winter is mild but there is an actual winter (we even had dreaded SNOW this year, shudder), real estate is super-cheap and it's nice, to me, to have ''things'' (box stores, malls, activities for the kids) close by but also feel pretty well removed from the real world and traffic.

[Liz]

Third vote for Denver! I grew up here and lived in New York for awhile, then came back to do the whole buy-a-house-have-a-baby thing. Great seasons, close to the mountains for being outdoorsy if you want, a good music and art scene, lots of young people doing exciting things and starting up businesses, etc. Plus, it is big and diverse enough that you can really customize how you you would like to live (what type of house/neighborhood/school) with a lot of variety and choices. The food and bowling is pretty good, too :-)