« Vir | Main | 1X1 »

October 25, 2009

Comments

Do the speech evaluation. My sister hemmed and hawed for a couple weeks and finally went through it and my nephew gets speech twice a week, it's through early intervention so it's free. The earlier they can start helping kids the better. She thought about waiting two months to hear what the doctor thought at his two year old check up, but I said if she was thinking about it, she should just go through with it, (this may have more gone:her talking about it for over a week, and ending with me going "Oh my G*d, just do it"). Plus she got to feel proud of her self at his check up because she was being proactive about it. He recently mastered the word 'fish.'

How lovely of you to share your space and what a wonderful choice for your first guest. I remember Alexa's post about Ollie and how touched and moved I was reading it.

Caroline absolutely cracks me up and I don't even know her. When my brother, an aspiring concert pianist (I am not kidding, and no, he's not, but he does play beautifully) would, as a teenager, express the rage he experienced when his practice was interrupted (eh! teenagers!) my mother would, at times, say to him, "Well, if the piano thing doesn't work out there's always dramatic acting." I mention this because the observation might come in handy in Caroline's and your future?

No help on the evaluation thing except to say if you're re-reconsidering it that might make it worth doing in a "just in case" sort of way.

My almost two year old does the shove huge pieces of food into his mouth thing and talks pretty well. It wasn't always that way though. I think I commented on your previous post concerning Edward's speech that my son said very few words at 18 months but his speech has improved dramatically in the last six months to the point that he now speaks in clearly articulated, albeit simple, sentences. It sounds like Edward is well within the normal range of talking and eating but it may seem different when you have another child of the exact same age who is progressing faster in certain areas (Caroline sounds like she is on the fast end of normal for speech).

My *guess* is that Edward is fine but, that said, an eval never hurt anyone and it won't hurt him (you can ask about it when he gets his flu shot!). My experience (I work in early childhood education research) is that almost all kids who get evaluated will be offered some services even if their issues are mild. Mostly EI in Minnesota is well-funded and they are willing and able to help most children even if the concern is only slight.

I am never one to discourage people from taking action on anything if your gut tells you to do so but since you asked for anecdotal evidence, my daughter is 2.5, has a disgusting habit of stuffing her mouth beyond full and the vocabulary and pronunciation to rival some 4-year-olds. In many ways your stories of Caroline remind me of her. Incidentally, I thought her ability to form sounds and eventually words was much worse than her older brother and later but within a few months she was in full sentence mode and the last 6 months have been amazing. Get the evaluation for your peace of mind (and maybe it will be needed) but kids are so individual that I wonder if having Caroline to compare to every day makes it hard to give him a chance to catch up at his own pace. Then again, you have the Patrick data point...all you can do is go with your instincts!

I love Caroline stories because she reminds me so very much of Alex who is not Russian, but only so very much like his mother (that would be me) that it's almost painful. Caroline, she will always be in my heart. Warming it's cold, black, shriveledness.

Might as well get the eval. Worst case scenario is a bit of irritating paperwork followed by an hour of a speech therapist playing with him. We had our oldest evaluated twice - the first time she was slightly deficient in pronunciation but not the 30% required for services (and her vocabulary was off-the-charts high for a 2.5 year old). The second time she qualified for social language issues - this despite the fact that she was also not particularly understandable at age 4. That didn't bother them nearly as much as her development of a tonal language based on the word "quack" (thankfully, she seems to have passed through some stage such that random people are no longer suggesting that she might have a developmental disorder).

Both of my kids, as well as my niece and nephews, have all hoarded food in their cheeks. My daughter is the only one who has needed speech therapy, though never for pronunciation difficulties (though she clearly has them). All of them yammer on like talk show hosts.

A friend was concerned about her son, nearly two. He didn't say anything. Not a word - just grunts and gestures. She made an appointment for an eval. The social worker came out the week before to do the paperwork, interviewed her and the baby. Said "oh, he's clearly going to qualify. He's months and months behind where he should be." 5 days passed. The morning of the eval, the child wakes up and starts speaking in grammatically correct 4-5 word sentences. Apparently, he needed some incentive.

Since you asked for feedback on the Edward speech/eating habits thing, I will say based on what you said in this post and his earlier issues with choking/possibly aspirating I do kind of wonder if he's got something going on with his oral tone and/or oral-motor coordination. I say go ahead and get the evaluation. It's free if you go through the county, and if they find something then the sooner you are aware of it the better. If they find nothing, you might feel a little silly, but dignity is overrated and you could stop worrying. I know plenty of people who say they wish they'd had their child evaluated for _____ sooner, but I don't know a single one who, years down the road, is harboring deep regret over having a kid checked out unnecessarily

Do it. You are Mama, you are wise.Call them. And no one's going to snigger if you're wrong.

Thank you, Julia, for your mention of my son, Oliver, and the horrible disease that took his life. A mere "thank you" seems so inadequate, though. One of my goals has been to increase awareness of the disease and of the availability of carrier testing. Since SMA has no cure, prevention is currently its only cure.

Families of SMA has more information about the disease that can be found at:
curesma.org

The Claire Altman Heine Foundation has more information about carrier screening that can be found at:
preventsma.org

My 2-yr-old nephew also does the cheeks thing (which I call THE GROSSEST THING EVER and my s-i-l assures me is nowhere near the top level of gross w/ a toddler) and is also a bit lacking the the vocab department. I never thought there was a connection between being a gross eater and preferring the point-and-grunt method of communication, but now that you mention it... If your spider sense is tingling, definitely get it checked out! The benefits of catching any issues early on *completely* outweigh a morning wasted while a specialist tells you he's fine.

Do the speech evaluation - it can't hurt, it can only help! And if he doesn't need some type of intervention, the sooner he gets it, the better.

On the evaluation, sounds like you will be thinking about it if you don't, so may as well get it done. As someone else commented, I think the trend is to suggest therapy when someone brings in a child this early on in part because it is so hard to tell what is a phase and what they will quickly grow out of, and no one wants to make a mistake.
On the ad space, that is so incredibly generous of you.
On Caroline, I love the "lonely" comment and the fact that she is experimenting with where it fits properly. My son likes "a little bit nervous". Makes me smile every time.

I am a long-time reader, although I don't think I've ever commented. Caroline is so beautiful. She is amazing. I mean they're all beautiful, but those pictures of Caroline are the cat's pajamas.

My nephew did the "don't swallow while eating" thing too for a while, his speech was fine. Gross and deadly habit, isn't it?

Evaluating is never a bad idea -- it might give you peace of mind. My experience with my twins is that they're fine, but that I tend to compare them with each other. So if one is really good at something, the other seems delayed to me. But really, they're just normal. Does that make sense.

I didn't get an email about the get-together, so I'm submitting this comment with a different email address, just in case.

I would definitely get an evaluation for Edward. At 18 months, my son shoved food in his mouth and did not speak much by age 2. He was evaluated and found to have a speech delay. At age 4, we moved on to a private speech therapist, as the county's programs for 3-and-up were seriously lacking.

The specialist noted that Daniel had very poor muscle tone in his face and struggled with the use of his tongue.

After weekly sessions lasting more than a year, his facial muscles were more toned, making his language more understandable. Even better, the therapist worked with closely with us to improve his day-to-day spoken vocabulary. It's made a huge difference in he interacts with people, especially other kids.

I take care of a food-hoarder two mornings a week, and have for almost two years. She is now three, has garbled speech (though a wide vocabulary; alas, most is indecipherable). She stores food in her mouth every time she eats. She will store it for hours.

I don't think, in her case though, that the food-storing is linked to her inability to form proper syllables (like Edward, she can also make individual sounds but not really put them together). In her case, I think it is bottle-related (as in she still drinks from a bottle 3 or 4 times a day). Her brother also kept his bottle until he was almost four, and now at five still has a lazy mouth which is improving with speech therapy. The eight-year-old sister speaks clearly and eloquently, and I am sure the two younger will grow out of it. Neither of the older siblings were ever food-hoarders (according to their mother).

I say get the eval... just know that although speech-language pathologists treat and evaluate feeding disorders as well as the more speech/language kind, most therapists are way more comfortable with one area or the other. Eating and speaking are not as related as some people think, but an eval would give you the information you need to proceed.

By 5 we have mastered our language... not all the fancy grammar nor all the words we'll ever learn, but we are really good at it by then, which is handy becuase that is when we march off to school and start using our speech and language skills even more. So even though it seems like he has ages (and he does) to learn these things, if he is finding it hard (rather than just doing it at his own time) it probably is better for him to get help earlier than later.

Oh and your description of his speech.. about the lippy sounds and how he can make all the sounds, but not in sequence.. print that bit and send it before your appointment. A good speech therapist would find that useful I reckon:)

Best of luck!

My son stuffs his little mouth to bursting as well, as did his older brother. Older brother was speech delayed and went to speech therapy off and on for a couple years - now of course I can't shut him up. Little brother will be two in Dec and will probably get a referral for an eval at that time since he makes a lot of noise but nothing that makes sense. Doesn't hurt to get the eval, at least you can ask about the mouth stuffing and see if there is any correlation, might be interesting to see if they have seen it before. Good luck.

That photo of Caroline smoldering is hysterical! I burst out laughing. That girl has a future on the stage, I predict.

Like all the other commenters, I say get the eval. My daughter didn't have the requisite 10 words by 18 months, and I started the eval process in our county. The first step was a long and challenging questionnaire. (Challenging because it asked questions like "How old was your child when he/she first responded to his/her name?" Darned if I remember!) The response turned out to be "try these things at home and contact us again in 6 months if things don't improve". Within 6 months she was putting full sentences together, and she's quite articulate and very understandable now at 3.

But I felt good about having her checked out (even remotely, through a questionnaire). Can't hurt, might help!

Yes indeed, Early Intervention never hurt anyone, if he does end up qualifying. As several others have mentioned, Edward's early aspiration/swallowing issues and current stuffing could certainly be related, though the stuffing and and speech may or may not be related. Does he pocket food too? (do you find bits of food in his cheeks after mealtime?) As mentioned, this could possibly be related to low-tone, which could be related to the speech. Or not! I would get him evaluated, just for some peace of mind.

Also, would you mind posting video of Caroline saying these amazing things? I am a speech-language pathologist and as such, I never ever see kids like her and would love to see what typical (or highly advanced!) kids do. Plus, it sounds adorable!

You can call Caroline zaika (bunny), kiska (kitty), lapochka (hard to translate, similar to cutie), moya sladkaya devochka (my sweet girl), dochen'ka (daughter)....

If you need more suggestions, let me know ;-) Finally, being Russian might come in handy!

Caroline is beautiful! Her hair is so very lovely. I know those aren't very insightful comments since they're so obvious, but there they are. That's all I can think to comment at this hour. :)

I have a friend whose daughter hoarded food in her cheeks when she was a toddler. It would be an hour after lunch and she'd have food still stuffed in her cheeks. When she ate lunch at my house I used to make her chew and swallow all her food before she got up from the table (wandering around the house with food in the mouth = choking hazard) and she'd look at me like I was insane. She didn't have any speech delays, though.

My 3.5-year-old godson didn't hoard food, but he did have speech delays. His mom had him evaluated around 20 months because he wasn't saying any words at all. He qualified for some speech therapy, and it helped him a lot. He's speaking normally for his age now.

Are you familiar with the blogger Amalah? Her older son had speech delays, and he also has sensory issues. They've dealt a lot with assessments, early intervention, etc. I know she's said before that when it comes to your kids, don't listen to everyone pooh-poohing you and assuring you that "he's just a late bloomer, my nephew/neighbor/step-cousin didn't talk till he was three and he's fine!" If YOU as your kid's mom would feel better getting him evaluated, get that evaluation and don't let anyone make you feel bad about it.

Pardon me while I put away this soapbox so no one trips on it...

Did a speech eval with my son at 19 months and a hearing exam at 25 months. He did not qualify for services and hears just fine, but it is way better to be reassured that your child is just a "late talker".

Iyyar did the same thing. He stuffed his mouth full of food and did not swallow it and frequently choked. I had to Heimlich him twice. As in, he was turning blue. I watched him like a hawk and cut all his food into tiny tiny pieces until... he had his tonsils out. And suddenly, there was room in his airway again.

Well, since you asked, I have a site for photography and graphic design:
www.handtohanddesign.com

I work at night when my kiddo is sleeping and take breaks by reading my favorite online writers-and your writing is superb!

By the way, I ordered a BUNCH of books from that book list you did a few posts ago and am now reading through them...a lot of good stuff so far. The girl who stopped swimming surprised me with the ending.

Your antenna have been quivering too long re: Edward's possible speech/oral motor issues to ignore. Make an appointment for an EI assessment. At worst, it will cost a few hours of your time.

Yet another pro-evaluation. I totally agree with MFA Mama. Her last sentence can be followed with a QED.

And Caroline is gorgeous as a glower.

I disagree that you get more out of the blog than we do. Not possible, such is our enjoyment.
I wish I was in the Twin Cities, (the description of the sky walks alone would be attraction enough. What an invention (in Dublin we just get wet)) but unfortunately nearly 4000 miles divide us.
I'm SAD! (as Caroline might sum it up).

Oh Caroline is divine. Edible even. Well, all your children are lovley, actually.

And while I feel funny sending this link, (But you ASKED, says the shy and embarassed poster) I run my Dad's ETSY shop. He's 81 and would sooner wear a thong down Main Street before he got a computer. He makes the sweetest little wooden toys. If you feel interested in featuring his shop, I can make it worth your (kids') while. Hint hint, wink wink. BUT, if you don't, absolutely no feelings will be hurt!

SimpleWoodenToys.etsy.com

Very timely post for me! I had trouble sleeping last night because I decided to fret about my son's speech. He does exactly as you describe, although he is about two months older than Edward. He can say all the letters, well most of them - L is hard! - but can't put them together. He has a handful of words, some signs and he gestures like Marcel Marceaux, so he communicates pretty well. But he doesn't talk very well.
I started the eval process, but we literally might move in the next 3 weeks to another state, so didn't want to do an eval in Tx and then another in NC...Sorry, I just went on and on.
Your babies are gorgeous!

Twangy I love your dad's toys! I too have attempted to bribe Julia, we shall see if she's corruptible, lol.

Julia:
I'm sure you don't need another 'get the eval' but I say why not, go ahead and have it done for peace of mind. That being said, some kids are chokers and some aren't. My daughter (10) has choked at least once a week every week for her entire life, including once so bad we called an ambulance, once in a restaurant where I had to Heimlich her until she barfed all over the table, and a billion other times that weren't as dramatic but just as scary. My son (6)OTOH has sensory issues and puts EVERYTHING from rocks to marbles to christmas tree lightbulbs in his mouth and has never choked a day in his life. Go figure. :S

I'm more a lurker than a poster, but get the eval. Best case scenario: speech therapist thinks you are overprotective because there is nothing wrong. Anything less than best case, you get services. My son is autistic, and I am a big believer in services. They work.

Useless contribution: Child 3 (male) had what I called a 'compost approach' to food. It shoved food continually in the front end of the system (and I do mean continually, with no break, not for air, not for nothin') and, going by the inevitable results a few hours later, it eventually processed its way down his little red gullet. I wish I could somehow link this to this particular Child's speech habits but, the thing is, its siblings were so LOUD, so constantly, endlessly, babblingly LOUD that I have embarassingly few memories of Child 3's verbal development. Two notes: 1) this Child had a tied tongue which was not snipped until very, very late (thanks to a family doctor who assured us it would self-correct some day... right... and wouldn't that be a bit painful and bloody now that I think on it??) 2) once Child 3's siblings started school we realized there had been a steady stream of low-volume chatter going on at about knee-level. As soon as it realized it now had an audience it cranked up the decibels by about 200% and has not stopped talking since.

There! I LOVE being useless on a Monday!

Okay, you've already been encourage to go for the eval. I agree that with his early aspiration stuff plus all the now stuff = get checked.

FWIW, my oldest had an articulation problem at around 3.5 yrs and didn't qualify for EI, but we did therapy through insurance. We realized that his low tone issues affected things besides speech. Like it explained why he couldn't blow bubbles, no matter how hard we tried to teach him. And it literally took almost 1.5 years to teach him to spit after brushing teeth. He still can't swish water in his mouth properly. We went on to learn he has mild fine motor issues in kindergarten. So, sometimes things are mild and subtle and effect things you wouldn't realize.

Good luck! Keep us updated (yeah, like you wouldn't ;-)

I love Caroline pictures, she is so incredibly cute. And her vocabulary! Wow!

Also, I think getting the speech evaluation for Edward will make you feel better. I think it's a win-win. Either they tell you that his development is fine (and Caroline is just very advanced) or they tell you he has some speech delays and you work on fixing it.

My younger son had a tendency to overfill his mouth and then "forget" to chew. He would stop chewing and sit there for a bit until we reminded him. I don't think it inhibited or was related to speech for him though. I sometimes wonder if it is related to his ADD where he just zones out for a while. If he is really holding food in his mouth for long periods of time I would worry about his teeth as well.

Mine always has a high threat level for choking. If you give him two bites of anything, he puts them both in his mouth. So, I can't say Oh yes, get the speech eval because seriously, mine does the same thing. In fact sometimes he gets so much in there, he simply spits it out because he can't swallow it which is about as lovely as it sounds. But I do think you would be able to just stop thinking about it if you got the eval done you know. You would know you didn't need it or you would know you did. Either way, you'd know.

My cousin's son (so my second cousin? I don't know how the proper term) has SMA. He's been in the hospital quite a lot and they don't think he'll live past two. It is just so so sad. He's such a sweet little boy. Gah, okay, I don't want to start crying about it again. But just to say, thank you for doing what you are doing for that family. They need it, SMA research needs it. I honestly had no idea it existed and was relatively common until he was diagnosed. But Thank you. Awareness sometimes is just really helpful.

If i had to guess, I'd say Edward might (might!) have a case of tongue-tie. All three of my boys were born with it, to varying degrees. My firstborn wasn't so badly off, he could nurse from a bottle, and only occasionally did his speech seem off. My last two were born with such bad tongue tie that they had to have it fixed or they couldn't even drink from a bottle.

Kids with tongue tie often struggle with swallowing issues; my youngest still will choke on liquids occasionally, just because his tounge isn't quite that coordinated yet.

And yes, the stuffing of cheeks, oh my gosh. My first (whose tongue tie was mild and not corrected) did that all the time.

My heart is aching for Ollie and his parents.

My daughter spoke early and clearly, and still (at nearly three) "chipmunks" food in her cheeks. Drives me batty!

But that doesn't mean you shouldn't get Edward the eval--given that you've considered it three times, I'd say go with your gut.

My daughter, who will be three in November, has 5p- Syndrome and she's always stuffed her mouth and held food in her cheeks like squirrel. She's been in speech therapy for two years now and she's speaking VERY well but still, can often be found stuffing her mouth with food.

I think that the speech therapy has helped, though. Of course, with her syndrome, she has also received PT and OT for the last two years.

hello! I have a just-turned-two-year-old boy who was a stuffer and not much of a chewer/swallower; after a few weeks of EI for what was deemed an oral motor delay, he has already improved quite a bit. And his words have become a bit clearer as well.

The EI system in New York is kind of baffling--he was very quickly evaluated and approved for services--but then it took five months to find him a therapist. (Five very frustrating months.) But I am very glad we stuck it out.

Yes!

The food cramming food/speech has to be linked. I had questioned it for months and was told by his doctor it was a habit.(?)
Wasn't till he was evaluated by a speech path that she connected the dots. Low tone in the muscles surrounding his lips and tongue. He couldn't lick the peanut butter off the top or bottom of his lips. I had never noticed.

:) Good Luck

Am sitting in "reconsider-ville" with you. I have 20 month old twin girls. One can't stop talking and is very annoyed when you don't understand her new oriental-sounding command. The other is a little slower - she does have her required 5 words - mama, dada, puppy, cookie, ba (ball) AND shes is a total chipmunk - shoves all her food in her mouth... until theres is so much she has to spit it out. I never thought of linking the 2 until now. MD said to wait until 21 months, but I'm now thinking to get an appointment now.

Thanks
P.S. Love reading about your life as it mirrors mine everyday in so many ways.

I love that C calls her twin Eddiebear, like she's a
doting older sister. Do the eval, put that worry to bed.

I have had the benefit of having one child with oral-motor issues and one without, and I would say do it. Even if he's within the range of normal, they can give you some tips on how to work on his skills. Early Intevention services are great and really helpful and thank you to all the other taxpayers for providing them.

Re: the Twin Cities area readers get together - no email here either, but I was a late requester, so it may have gone unnoticed.

It must be impossible to be stern with Caroline - that smouldering look would make me laugh every time. She's just...enchanting.

One of my girls was a cheek-stuffer too, and it turned out to be enormous tonsils that restricted her ability to get food properly swallowed. But Edward has had his tonsils out, right?

I would probably get the evaluation, too, just for peace of mind. Our daughter (now 3.5) was precocious, verbally, and our son (now 2) was much less so. When he wasn't speaking in full sentences and singing the alphabet song by 18 months, I worried that something was wrong, not realizing that Olivia had just been setting our expectations at an unreasonable level. He is now quite talkative and speaks in fairly complex sentences; it happened all in a rush around 22 months. (Not sure if I buy it completely, but our pediatrician assures us that boys tend to be slower in the verbal department than girls, and that rings true for me when I think of all the chatty two-year-old girls I've met.) Sounds like Caroline is highly precocious and Edward is completely normal for his age; having them side by side must really highlight the differences.

The comments to this entry are closed.


Just Browsing?


  • julia.typepad.com

Privacy Policy

  • Privacy Policy
    I use third-party advertising companies to serve ads when you visit my website. These companies may use information (not including your name, address email address or telephone number) about your visits to this and other websites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services of interest to you. If you would like more information about this practice and to know your choices about not having this information used by these companies, visit www.networkadvertising.org.