« They... WHAT? | Main | Mostly Cricket, Briefly »

January 19, 2010

Comments

I'm sure many have already said, but leisure time is non-working time. I'm a SAHM so my "job" is keeping this house running and keeping people (of all sizes) fed and happy and healthy. That's my job. It's a higher stress job than my husband's, who's an electrical design engineer. I'm grateful that he's absorbed the lesson the just because he's paid more doesn't mean his job has more stress (bless him for it).

My leisure time is flower gardening (the veg garden, though I love it, still serves a purpose), knitting something for myself, reading a pleasure book (nothing educatable). Some of my computer time is leisure, some isn't.

Just because it's enjoyable doesn't make it leisure.

It is only leisure time if you are doing exactly what you WANT to be doing at that time. Not what you should be doing and I think for every person it is fluid. Sometimes its reading a book, another time it might be a rowdy game of Chutes & Ladders, or (heaven forbid) working out.

Oh boy this topic is a can of worms and I applaud you for opening it. Loved that Irretrievably Broken link...what a gift with words she has, huh? I consider time with my kids (2 and 6) leisure time in the most general sense of the word---it is not my paid vocation, which I engage in "full time." I adore them and I adore the time with them but I would not, by any means, characterize it as leisurely or relaxing. I much prefer the term "personal time," which can then be subdivided into chores (20 %), fun with kids (50%), fun with husband (5%), sleep (24%), and true me time like reading, exercise, coffee/drinks with friends, etc. (1%). I don't think there's a perfect solution to this one. Irretrievably broken's statement about always wanting what we don't/can't have is spot on. Also that autism book on your sidebar is, with all due respect to you and none to its authors, junk science and I know you don't entirely control your ads but, ug. I don't think you wanted to open THAT can of worms did you?

that link? bo-o-o-o-ring. 'I'm divorced, whine whine whine.'

Wow! How timely! Is the moon full or something? I just got a whack of emails about how to deal with temper tantrums and I posted one mother's question with some strategies that can help tame the tantrums... Check them out if you're interested, but from your description, I'd say the language issues could definitely still be a source of the problem and I'd also say that being 2 is also the issue. In particular, some kids really need to start feeling some sense of their own power and autonomy during this stage and any chance you give them to feel a bit of control can help ease the frequency of the tantrums. So, when you asked him if he wanted to unzip his own PJs and that stopped the freak out, that hinted to me that these power/control issues are really at play. So, here's a bit more on that issue, from the blog entry:

4. Provide him with lots of opportunities throughout the day where he has the illusion of control (if not the reality). He’s being told what to do all day long: with parents in the morning, with child-care providers or at daycare, during mealtime, and so on. Children sometimes need to feel like they have some say in the way their day unfolds. Most of you have heard this stuff many times and have mentioned this in the comments sections. Provide choices: Do you want the blue or the red pants today? Do you want to take off your diaper now or after breakfast? Do you want to have cereal or toast?. Also, I'd suggest being very attuned to his behaviour so that you can catch him being strong, good, powerful, brave. And then praise the hell out of him (he needs to feel his power and control and that you recognize those things, not just put him down for it).

About the leisure time? I do NOT consider any time with my twin (almost) 4-year olds leisure time, with the obvious caveat that I love them to pieces, often have a really fun time with them, blah, blah. Like the other comments have mentioned, I still feel responsible for their safety and emotional state, even when I'm loving their bathtime or reading my favourite books to them, etc. Leisure time to me is when I'm cooking for pleasure (which I don't do often enough), reading a book by myself, or I have a cocktail in my hand...

I'm not sure what leisure time is. I adore my children (I have two), and some of our time together would be classified as leisure, such as reading stories or doing things on the weekends, but even as a working mom, a lot of my time with them is work. Making dinner, giving them baths, ect. Also, I don't deep clean my house. I have a maid that comes regularly. I do dishes, and laundry, and general picking up, but I don't have time for more. I'm also completing my Bachelor's Degree in Business Administration and I work out for at least an hour every evening, which depending on the work out can be leisure time. I don't have much time for TV, reading, or video games.

Also the pictures of your children are adorable, and as usual I was giggling as I read your post. I enjoy your writing so much.

I'm a stay at home mom who does contract work as it's available. The notion of leisure time amuses the hell out of me. I assume they are talking about the few hours of sleep? Granted, I volunteer more than I have to, so that's my own fault, but even then the days fill up faster than they make them. Today I had to get in 4 hours of contract work and have a paper submitted by 10am, I am now taking a short break from solicitations calls for my child's school auction, I am then going to pick my child up early from school to take her to a doctor appt, go back to school for Brownies, take her to knock on some doors for cookie sales, go pick up a gift certificate from a restaurant, take child to karate, cook dinner, supervise shower for child who thinks it's not over until there is no more hot water, and probably fall in bed by 8.30 and hope that said child does not have bad dreams like last night. I'm sure the shower I'm about to take counts as leisure time. Oh, and I ate breakfast - leisure time. Do potty breaks count? *sigh* True eisure is when you don't have to hurry.

Ha ha...this is exactly how it went with me when my son was two. What is WRONG with him??? How have I failed so mightily as a mother??? Oh, tooth, nevermind.

First of all 2 year old tantrums. My daughter turned 2 on October 1st, so she's not that much older than yours. Her vocabulary is freakish, she was speaking in sentences at 18 months. However when she wants something, really wants it, all words fall out of her head and she grunts. I say "Use your words". I refuse to run down the list of possible things she may want or need. Usually I ignore her after a few minutes and tell her "Tell mama what you want and I will help you". Oh that's another one, if she's stuck or can't reach something she has FINALLY gotten fairly good at saying "help please" instead of turning into a psychotic cavewoman screaming & grunting. So, I think it's the age. My oldest daughter was fairly good at 2 but I called it the Horrific Threes. Guess we'll have to see what happens. Regarding lesiure time. I am a single mom and work about 40 hours a week outside of the home. My leisure time is when the kids go to bed and I snuggle up on the sofa to watch The Good Wife or Law & Order and fall asleep in about 18 minutes. Or on Wednesday when both kids are in school (the youngest till 1230pm) and I get to clean or run errands. That is my leisure time. Oops it's 1212pm...gotta go pick up the little one Julia btw :)

I was a stay at home mom until about a month ago. Then circumstances changed and I had to leave my 7 month old daughter and go to work at a meat packing plant. I work the night shift (3-midnight) and have a half hour drive to and from work. She is asleep for the night when I get home and down for a nap when I leave work. When she wants up in the morning I am usually so tired I don't even remember my name. She plays with Dad while I sleep. I feel like not only is my house a certified disaster area, but that I don't even get to enjoy the time I have with her as much. Leisure time? HA. I am lucky to be here reading your blog (which I adore) and only then because Lily is very content to play with blocks and books next to me for 10 minutes. I miss being a stay at home mom and having a clean house! And baking and having real food to cook. Seriously.

My husband works outside of the home full time and I am a stay at home mother. Neither of us considers time spent w/ our child to be downtime. As much as we love her and look forward (sometimes! often!) to playing w/ her, downtime is the time we spend alone (or alone together) doing what we want (hobbies, reading, games, etc).

I followed the link and read the post article. Good grief, what a moron that guy is. OK, if he's childless I can see him being clueless enough to count time spent playing with the kids as leisure (though I'd love to loan him my toddler to disabuse him of the notion), but two hours spent in the middle of nowhere with a small child waiting for a tow truck is leisure time???! Moron.

I think my standard would be to apply the computer game test. Is this time I could have spent playing World of Warcraft? If the answer is no then it is not leisure time. Even if I can squeeze in ten minutes of reading a blog while my girl plays with blocks on the floor of my office, it's more stolen time than leisure time because I could not have given the computer enough attention to play a MMORPG because the girl may have chosen to run off and burn the house down, or crawl into my lap and pound the keyboard or... you get the idea.

No doubt someone has already pointed this out, but just in case....

With our kids, a developmental change of any kind always = unbearable behavior. So here's how I'd explain Eddybear's mood: teething + speech acquisition = CRANKY!

I am a SAH mom, with a part-time outside the house job that I bring the kid with me. My "leisure time" is pretty much only while she's sleeping - either naptime or bedtime. But even then there is some necessary cleaning/dishes/laundry that needs to be done and all I want to do is surf the internet/blog/nap. Some days I win. :) Some days, I don't.

Also, what is with the love of toothbrushing? My own nearly-2 yr old Caroline also loves it. I, personally, hate it myself, and so I really don't get her preference. Of course, mine will happily steal her daddy's toothbrush, which is more accessible, so that's problematic.

Adorable pictures. Love those kids.

Leisure time? I get kids down by 8, finish cleaning up dinner, scrub the baby's bottles, pack up stuff for work the next day, pump more milk, take a shower, fix things that are broken, clean things that are dirty and if I'm really lucky, get 20-30 minutes to chill before I fall in to bed. Chill time is taken away from sleep, so the desire for both is a constant internal battle.

Is time with kids leisure? Not if I'm trying to keep them both busy while I'm trying to throw together dinner, running them to doctor's appointments, or convincing them that helping Mommy clean or shovel snow is play. It is leisure time if we say to heck with chores and spend a quiet Saturday morning in our jammies til noon while eating pancakes, watching cartoons and playing board games.

Definitely get Eddybear's ears checked. My ds had ear problems that I was slow to discover and had some speech and walking delays. He was not one to be crabby so it was a hard catch. My dd is more typical in crabbiness caused by ears, and we're on our way to tubes to avoid those issues. Normally a sunny and delightful child, she's a little bear when her ears are hurting.

I worked for 5 years in a school for kids with behavior problems and I learned some tricks that I use on my own kids. DS isn't BD, just 3, but the same techniques work.
1) tantrums must never result in kids getting what they want. It will only reinforce the behavior. Even if you agree that child should have said item/reward, etc. wait until the child is calm and asks for it politely before giving in.
2) Best reaction to tantrum is to remind child that it is not appropriate behavior, make sure they are safe, not hurt, scared, etc. and walk away. Tantrums are attention seeking behaviors and any attention, positive or negative, will encourage that behavior.
3) Don't interact/reason/negotiate with a child in the middle of a tantrum. They are not in a reasonable state of mind and are not thinking logically. If you try to negotiate, they will always hold out for a better deal. If you must interact, remind them of expected behavior and that they will have your attention when that behavior is demonstrated.
4) when they are done 'tantruming', give them time to calm down before expecting them to return to normal. If you jump back in too quickly, they could flare up again.
5) When my son was younger, I always kept him in an adjacent room so I could keep an eye on him while he was in meltdown to make sure he was safe. Now that he's a little older (3) I'll set a time limit, say 2 minutes, and if he's not calm by then, he has to finish the tantrum in his room. It's pretty impressive how quickly he can pull it together.

I follow these steps and for me, my son's tantrums and few and usually pretty mild. My husband used to try to negotiate or rason with ds and tantrums for him were more frequent and lasted longer. Obviously if a child is sick, hurt, tired, etc., the rules change a bit, but for the everyday tantrums, these work pretty well.

This is not part of the official discussion, but have you tried the Happiest Toddler technique of mimicking the tantrum back to Edward at about 70% of his intensity until he calms down? And if so, does it work, in any sense of the word?

I have been trying it with our 20mo DS, and I think mainly it works by not letting me get so irritated about the whining or stomping of feet (as with about 90% of so-called child-taming techniques for the under-threes, which seem to be more about helping parents cope until the behaviour blows over of its own accord).

Anyway, it is supposed to make them feel like they are being listened to, because you are responding in a way they can identify with that makes them feel like you are properly on board with their frustration. Anyway, perhaps it does work the way it's supposed to in our house, or perhaps it's just an excuse for me to express my frustration at his lack of self-control in as juvenile a manner as I see before me and damn but it feels good, but I am dying to find out how it goes with "real" 2yo tantrums. Preferably via someone else's experience.

Bea

Just counseled my friend with a 2 year old that the reason her son was all of a sudden waking up 3 times per night was because of his 2 yr. molars. "Give him Motrin," I announced, and she was all, "Wow."

Time with the kids is almost never leisure time. Doesn't mean it's not fun or joyous or the center of my universe (seriously, I treasure my time with my children, especially now that they are at the blissful ages of 5 and 7) - but it's not leisure time. Leisure time is ME time. And it involves copious amounts of sleeping.

My children are now fully functioning adults and I consider myself to have been a successful Working Mother. Despite the lack of pension and the non-existent pay/tax breaks, I was At Home and Working: who else was making the household go? They sure found out when I wasn't there!

I am a stay at home mom to two boys, 8 and 6. When the youngest went of to all day kintergarden I suddenly had Large abounts of free time. I volunteer at the school a lot. I exercise almost daily. I also spend a fair amount of time taking my mom to Dr. appointments. She is 80. I get to do all my errands child free. I think my life is lot less hectic then my friends. It is the choice that works for our family. Not working gives my husband and I lots of time to keep the marital relations alive!

No, time with your kids isn't leisure time. It's enjoyable, hopefully, but leisure is getting to do what you want to do and not bothering, as

I handle it by having a maid. Yup, I do. She was my daughter's nanny and now she comes to do some babysitting, but mainly cleaning, laundry and the like. We've been living overseas for 4.5 years and this is one of the perks.

Huh. I WOH and that is actually pretty good ... I have stuff I have to do at work, it's reasonably predictable and evaluable, I do it and get feedback (and pay). Then there's parenting my 3 y.o. which, not so much. And certainly not leisure. He is just getting to a stage where we can actually sort of do stuff together (example, today, stacking firewood), but I cannot, e.g., take him to the pool and leave him there swimming in the kids' pool while I go swim my laps (which I am currently enjoying doing, though I don't always, and which, therefore, for now, counts as leisure). So, no. Not leisure.

Actually I do pretty well on the leisure stuff, though. I own a horse, which 'forces' me to ride same, as he's too expensive not to. It's hard to fit it in, but good that I do (though frustrating when I'm timing that, too, as in, OK, I must get off at 4:30 lest I fail to get home in time to make dinner...). I swim 2 or occasionally 3 times a week. I sometimes leave DS home with DH and go for a walk in the woods for fun (does not count if I take DS as I either have to carry him or negotiate with / wait for him, and either destroys the relaxation of the walk I otherwise enjoy). And I have one night a week when I've told DH I will not come home until (unless?) I feel like it (he gets the same). So that works pretty well for us, but insert 18 cautionary notes about how lucky we are to have reasonably flexible work schedules, a reasonably comfortable budget, a reasonably happy marriage, just 1 dependent kid, and so forth, and I can easily see where what we've got is darned elusive. And even for us, it often seems a scramble to maintain it. Oh, and neither clutter nor mess disturb me.

Lovely update, sounds about completely normal to me.

My 2 1/2 year old daughter speaks almost as well as my 5 year old son; had they been twins, it might have looked like Edward and Caroline.

Enjoy those gorgeous children you write so well about!

Leisure time, smeezher time. I don't know. I work full-time and I have a messy house and... I don't care. It's worth it to me, emotionally and financially, to have a disaster area in my living room for a few years while we mix 2 full-time careers and small kids. So sue me.

I can tell you, though, that after several days off with my kids, work FEELS like leisure time.

In addition, I refuse to acknowledge any and all "studies" about the perils of being a working mom. My husband has it rougher than I do work-wise and does more than his fair share around here. An article about working PARENTS, sure. But this whole "working moms have it tough" whine is crap. I knew going in that "leisure time" would be a casualty. That's true no matter how you decide to mother.

Yeah, I think I would class leisure time as time without kids/ home duties.
My leisure time is the 45 minutes I spend out of the house at the gym, and one night per week scrapping.

OMG, you haven't done the two-ish molars yet? Those were a bear for our twins. (And, by extension, for me.) Infant Motrin saved my sanity. If Edward is cutting teeth, that is surely adding to his distress over whatever.

Re his current communication gap: We bridged a lot of that with our twins by me getting them to point to whatever it was that was bothering them. Pointing was very useful -- once I had identified the cause of the wild-eyed fit, I could usually figure out what was in their little heads.

Further comment: you have ridiculously photogenic and adorable kiddos! Smooch 'em for all of us, will you? :)

Oy - I've got a full-time job and 2 kids, 4 and nearly 2. I'm a small business owner and at the moment, the sole breadwinner. I do believe that I have some "leisure time" in my weeks, by which I mean there are occasionally evenings during which the kids are in bed and I don't *have* to stay up till 11 p.m. trying to get my own work done. But, honestly, I'm so damn tired all the time that my "leisure time" ends up just getting wasted on useless internet surfing or looking at the newspaper, trying to rein in my horror at the idiots writing in letters to the editor... So, it may technically be "leisure" but it's a rare moment when that time isn't totally filled with guilt that I'm not doing something that I could appreciate later (e.g., actually tidying the house, which is a perpetual disaster) or that I at least enjoy (e.g., working on photo albums or reading a book). I love my kids to pieces, but the constant, constant neediness means that time with them - unless we're out of the house doing something recreational - is definitely NOT leisure time. I can't even imagine how stay-at-home moms do it - I definitely consider going to work every day to be easier than looking after kids all day...

And as a side note, the idea that just not cleaning your house is the solution to having quality time in your life - pure idiocy, in my opinion. My house is practically never anywhere close to how I'd like it to be - this is not freeing, it's emotionally draining and demoralizing being surrounded by crap all day, every day - and yes, at some point you DO have to wash those dishes or that laundry, at which point you have 10 times more to do than if you'd just kept up with it...

And...when I DID work outside the home, before son#2 was born, work was much more "leisurely" than home. Once I had two boys and stayed home, I must agree, it was the constant neediness of all 3 boys (including the DH here) that I needed respite from. Just some time here someone didn't need me to do something, find something, take care of something right now!, ya know? Sometimes just a shower or bath without someone barging in, knocking on the door, calling to me etc.

I found the comment from Marsha immensely comforting: "There is no perfect and, like mothering in general, good enough is really just great."

My daughter - age 2.5 - had the "screaming fits for no apparent reason" stage. It lasted about 4 months. It was hell and I never did figure out what was causing it or the "right" way to handle it and OMFG did I try. She is 16 now and the sweetest kid. Go figure.

My ds had hearing difficulties/speech delays due to ear infections from 9 - 18 months old. I had already started baby sign language with him because I was really curious about what he was thinking, and I'm convinced it helped reduce the number of tantrums while his speech was developing. It was very rudimental - hungry, thirsty, tired, all done, book, ball, please, thank you. He was able to express at least his most basic needs and reduce some of the non-communication frustration.

"Now, Robinson, who is divorced and lives alone, sometimes hops on the Metro without knowing where he's going and gets off when the spirit moves him. He travels, is never rushed and has become a beer connoisseur. He goes out nearly every night. "A day without live music," he says often, "is like a day without sunshine."

I thought I posted this before, but, seriously, read the first line. How in the heck can he decided what's leisure time to a mother, he hasn't got a clue! He answers to no one except himself.

thank you , thank you a million times thank you. i am going through the same speech and behavioral issues with my 2 1/2 year old son right at this minute (well you know what i mean). your post made me laugh so that i was crying. we are about to embark on speech therapy with him and i am nervous and afraid and am expecting the same reaction (hiding his face and a general lack of compliance). so i am relieved to know it got better. i know i need to hang in there, but it frustrates the hell out of me. especially when this child was so verbal and now..ugh. i also say, "use your words" a million times a day. it's annoying him i know and honestly it annoys me to do it. so i have hope now instead of wanting to just cry. thank you.

My husband and I both have strong needs for "personal" time. His is purely leisure. I often work during mine, but it's work I want to do and unrelated to childcare. Every weekend, one day is family day and the other day we split evenly. I take the child for half the day while he does what he wants, then I get the second half of the day to myself. We also divide the childcare hours during the week so that one person is in charge. We each have a couple evenings in which we aren't in charge and I'm free to go exercise, attend an event, or do whatever I want to do. This free time guaranteed by the schedule is critical to my wellbeing. I'm in awe of those who are on duty all the time.

From prince Eddybear to peevish? Say it ain't so! Love, love the photos.

The entire time I read what you were writing about Edward I thought "he's cutting his two year molars". My daughter is their age and is also cutting her two year molars. She's a mess... has no patience, cries over nothing. Luckily she is vocal like Caroline so she tells me "my teeth hurt" and I get her a cup of ice and some tylenol.

My leisure time consists of her naptime. That's when my pink tivo and bedroom become my dorm room and I veg, read blogs and try to prepare myself for when she wakes up.

Completely off topic, but you were mentioned in our local newspaper today, in the Eguide thingymajig. There is a copy of the article on my blog if you're interested?

I love that last photo for so many reasons, but my favorite part about it is the Machiavellian cat watching from the shadows.

What is this leisure time you speak of? Is it the 3 hours of sleep I traded so I can sit catatonic on the couch refusing to go to bed because, by damn, I'm going to get some time to myself even if it kills me...?

I do work at a corporate evil empire, LOL and to me leisure time is anything that involves me not doing anything that is related to responsibilities I have. That includes, my 7AM to 3PM job, shuttling my older daughter to activities, taking care of babies that I adore, doing the bills, grocery shopping.

So if I get some time by myself to exercise, cook for fun (not dinner that is a responsibility), have friends over for drinks, spend some time quilting (not sewing my daughter's buttons that fell off her shirts), I count these things as leisure time. I also do count my blogging time as leisure. I'm curious to read this article, as I feel like I'm always trying to figure out the work/life balance thing as well as making time for myself, which is not going very well. I think I might get about 5 hours of leisure time and I try to spend at least 1/2 of that getting some form of exercise. I'll see what I think of the article.

Okay seriously, thank you for writing about Edward's tantrums because holy hell. My son Toby is exactly the same way (though his preferred position for tantrums is standing while arching his back, flexing every muscle in his body, looking at the ceiling and shattering glass on Mars with his screams.) Seriously, this kid.

And I died laughing at the "I hate you and you're an asshat" thing. Yeah, that's pretty much what Toby is thinking. I can tell. That and "you are the most despicable human being on the planet earth/you are Satan/you have ruined my life forever."

Remember that Jewish folk tale where the Rabbi tells the unhappy man to bring all his animals into the house to live with him, which makes him even more miserable; but when the animals are finally ejected, the man is happy and everything seems calm and peaceful, compared to living in smelly, loud, chaos.

I'm a SAHM to 4, with three in finally in school. And apparently my kids are like cows and goats and chickens, cause that story feels real close to home.

After school hours (and summers. Half the year at nearly 100 degrees!) are still crazy nuts and loud, but quiet school days with one nearly-4-year old in tow? Pleasant. Fairly relaxing. Leisurely, even!

I don't think it matters if you have an outside job or your only job is running the house, "leisure time" to me means kid free. Hubby can be there. As long as he's in a good mood and showering me with gifts, kisses, and chocolate ;) I think even if you are doing something with them you like (although with littles like mine...5,3, 4 months) they can even make enjoyable things not so much...) it still falls under the heading of "work". Leisure time is alone time. in my book, anyway.

I work out of the house at a pretty intense job and have only one child, so I get most excited about With Kiddy (he's 3) leisure time, Especially when we are doing something vaguely adventure-like. So Sunday, we took a bike ride together and went to a park, and that was leisure time to me, or when we go to the art museum together that's leisure too. I'm pretty into making my kid do what I like to do, and he's putting up with it so far, so it actually works out pretty well as leisure.
I think this is partly a function of your kid's age and how many you have: if he was younger, or I had another younger child, I would not consider my child-time leisure time in the same way.

The comments to this entry are closed.


Just Browsing?


  • julia.typepad.com

Privacy Policy

  • Privacy Policy
    I use third-party advertising companies to serve ads when you visit my website. These companies may use information (not including your name, address email address or telephone number) about your visits to this and other websites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services of interest to you. If you would like more information about this practice and to know your choices about not having this information used by these companies, visit www.networkadvertising.org.