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May 04, 2010

Comments

Two things...
1. I love that you referenced Adam Ant. There can never be enough Antmusic in the world.

2. Speaking as a teacher and a parent of a special needs child, your friend should NOT hold her child back. As long as there is no academic regression, the little one should be fine. Have they considered (or already tried) any art or music programs outside of school? Anything where the child can kick back and not have to worry about school assignments but can still interact with peers may be helpful.

Re: Outdoor activities:

My husband and 11 year old have played Disc Golf for years. They love it! Even if there are no courses around you, you can still buy a bunch of discs and a basket from one of the online sites and set it up in your back yard.

http://www.pdga.com/

I am moderately sure I've seen this suggestion here on your very own blog, but if you haven't already listened to the Artemis Fowl series you should. It's possible you might want to listen to the audiobooks even if you have already read the actual books - the readings are delightful. I have now listened to the first Percy Jackson book and while it was enjoyable, I did have to keep reminding myself to look beyond some of its literary failings. But it should be acceptable for light car listening.

Lemony Snicket Lemony Snicket Lemony Snicket! Yes yes yes. Tim Curry reads them and OH MY GOD do I love him. And the books.

Academically... I think she'll catch up academically this summer but not socially. Sorry for the awkward phrasing on that.

Thank you for posting the question, Julia, - especially during a time of sickness - and to anyone who chimes in with an opinion.

Of course, our issue is nothing like the one that Ollie's family has dealt with and is dealing with now. My very very best hopes go out to them.

for the love of all that is good and holy, don't hold that child back. has her teacher suggested it? tons of research has been done on the almost exclusively negative long-term effects of retention, but it boils down to: if the kid suspects school ain't her thing, and then she's held back, she will summarily conclude that experts agree school ain't her thing. and then school will never be her thing.

get her in some fun, non-academic stuff and encourage the independence and socialization stuff to the point of pain and discomfort (parental, not child). she needs very specific help and instruction with befriending other kids. scaffold her but don't let her retreat. i betcha once she feels she belongs in the classroom, the other things will fall into place, and she'll cope beautifully with the hearing thing and any other hurdles if she feels she "gets" school. so help her with the mechanics of what school and making friends is all about, but don't expose her to the same content twice, not to mention the scrutiny and shame of her peers and herself. because no matter how logically we adults view it, there is shame felt by the kid.

ps. I'm a kindergarten teacher.

I second the Artemis Fowl suggestion - they are wonderful!

The Percy Jackson books are awesome. I just raced through them myself this spring and I can't wait till my daughter is old enough to appreciate them!

Patrick might not appreciate Bryson's take on Shakespeare, but I bet he would like many of Bryson's other books, being an inquiring-minded child. I bet he'd find the book about Australia (In a Sunburned Land) and the one that's about, well, everything (A Short History of Nearly Everything) quite interesting. The one about the history of the English language in America (Made In America) is also really entertaining, as Bryson goes off on tangents about interesting characters so much that the book is more like a really colorful, hilarious history of the country itself, than of American English.

Hope the twinks are better soon!

p.s. I am still not convinced to use a neti pot. Sorry.

Audiobooks: My son has enjoyed the Eddie Dickens Trilogy (Philip Ardagh) and the Secret Series (Pseudonymous Bosch). Also, Ghosthunters (Cornelia Funk).

Related to SMA: you can check gwendolynstrong.com for 3 ways to vote this month to support SMA research. Please. SMA is awful.

Edward is indeed a Golden Boy -- I nominate him to replace either Erroll Flynn or the young and dashing Orson Welles. Caroline, of course, is in a class by herself and will brook no comparison!

Re audiobooks: Has he read "The Hobbit" yet? Unfortunately it's not a series unless you get into LOTR, which is rather a big bite even for Patrick (though he might get into it after all -- who can tell with Patrick?) but I first had "The Hobbit" read to me when I was just five and it is one of the greatest memories of my childhood. I can't imagine it has not been recorded by someone yet.

Books on tape -- How about Elizabeth Nesbit? "Five Children and It," "The Wouldbegoods," etc, etc.

Edward is a Bright Young Thing. With his little quiff, I'm thinking Stephen Tennant, as photographed by Cecil Beaton. I could stretch to a young Tony Curtis, circa "Some Like it Hot" but mostly I get a Between the Wars vibe. And yes, he is SO PRETTY.

Oh neti pot! I used it twice, I was really sick one time, the pressure between my eyes were horror and unbearalbe! Right after I used it, the pressure was gone. I felt 10 times better. My husband used it all the time for allergy. We actually got it as a Christmas exchange gift. :)

My nine year old loves Diane Wynne Jones on audio book, and all the ones we've heard come with a great English accent. We just listened to Charmed Life and were very pleased.

My older son really liked the Tamara Pierce books. She writes kidlit and YA so read the backs, but her books are done by Full Cast Audio with different voices for different characters. Nice and vivid for car listening. The Magic Circle are the young ones.

I haven't listened to the Wynne Jones books on audio but have always enjoyed reading them. Some might be a little beyond Patrick's interests but the Chestromanci (sp?) series should be right up his alley- I would just briefly review the plots before blithely popping them in. You would adore Fire and Hemlock but Patrick won't like it for a while yet or perhaps ever- it's a bit of a high school girl book. If you go on her website, she has quite the rant about J K Rowling which left me quite conflicted as two of my favorite authors collide. Anyway, I second Charmed Life. You two might also enjoy The Dark Is Rising sequence but I'm not sure. It's one of those series that he may be just on the cusp of being ready for as it can get a bit creepy/scary but if he's made it through Book 5 and The Death, he will probably be fine.

Also, as you did just buy a farm... Have you considered something with horses? From the little I know, I believe therapeutic riding is often used to help children with balance and co-ordination issues (among other things) and is within shouting distance of dirt bike racing if looked at from the right angle.

The Bartimaeus trilogy audiobooks by Jonathan Stroud! I think you guys would like the dry wit and exaggerated ego of Bartimaeus, the genie who narrates much of the story.

I'm deaf in one ear and had terrible trouble socially in school - deafness really cuts you out of a lot of play. I think I might have been better being kept down (I was young for my year) but even better would have been to send me to a quiet little girl's school with plenty of individual attention... Also, in the next grade she may meet some girls she can really talk to, and she'll have the advantage of experience. Don't worry about her academia - if she's bright, she'll learn fine in or out of school - it's the social aspect that is the killer. (nb. a's suggestions re socialisation sound pretty fine ;)

Julia,

We actually use this alternative to the Neti pot on our two year old son. Both pediatricians in our office recommend it. He doesn't like it so it takes two of us, but it does help him get better much quicker and reduces the runny nose.

NeilMed Sinus Rinse

http://www.amazon.com/NeilMed-Sinus-Rinse-Regular-Kit/dp/B000A0S5KC

They have a Pediatric version but we just use the adult one.

THANK YOU for mentioning SMA. A friend of mine lost her daughter at 3 weeks to this terrible (and mostly unknown for how common it is) disease and has been working diligently to get the word out about SMA. I'm glad to see one of the other commenters mentioned the Gwendolyn Strong foundation as well--they are doing great work in raising awareness and money for research, but there is still so little awareness of this awful disease. I'll keep Ollie's family (and his siblings) in my thoughts and prayers...

Re: books, is Patrick too young for Madeleine L'Engle? When I was a kid I LOVED "A Wrinkle In Time" and her other books, and he is such a smart kid I suspect he'd totally love them!

A. I love the netipot. Perhaps more than is appropriate.

B. We had a trampoline growing up and it was the single most dangerous thing I've ever been involved with. But good god did we love it! Endless hours of fun to balance the not so great stuff. Especially in the summer when we put the sprinkler under it. Good times. I will say though we had the old school spring/no net version. I think the ones today are much better.

Have you considered lawn darts for the backyard?

As a teacher, I strongly do not recommend that your friend hold her daughter back. I sends the wrong message about her ability level, to her and her peers. Plus, if she's older than her classmates, then it just gives her one more thing to be self-conscious about and one more negative reason to stand out.

I recommend she get involved in as many fun, social activities as possible this summer - she'll get to work on the needed social interaction in a non-school environment; hopefully she'll find an activity that she's good at, which will help her build self-confidence; and she'll go back to school in the fall with lots to talk about (and hopefully a few new friends). School is tough enough, without making the experience longer unnecessarily. There are a lot of parenting groups on meetup.com where her mother can meet other parents to set up play dates. Swim teams are great. The YMCA usually has all kinds of quirky things to check out. Most communities offer summer programs, arts and crafts classes, day camps, etc. But now is the time to start looking into them because they tend to fill up fast.

Love the Gregor the Overlander series by Suzanne Collins, but I don't know if Patrick is ready for them yet. (However, they fall into the same range as many of the other recommendations. So maybe.) It's not the reading level, it's the weightiness of some of the conflicts. Plus a few fight scenes. But excellent books. Boys love this series. I can't believe Patrick hasn't already read the Percy Jackson series - I suspect he'll love them. It is a great choice for a cross-country trip, because once you start the books, you won't want to stop. (So if you listen to them now, you'll be done long before your vacation.) Rick Riordan has another series out right now called The 39 Clues, but it's not as good as Percy Jackson. Entertaining, but less clever. And at some point, the Eragon series.

Have you ever heard of geocaching? It seems like something Patrick would enjoy if he enjoys hiking.

One of these days, I am going to wrestle my husband to the sink and force him to use the neti pot. He's ALWAYS always always snuffly and I think that it would help him, but he's so skeeved out by it.

Oooh, I'll second Bartimaeus and Wrinkle in Time and Wynne Jones. And I can totally see Patrick absorbing Bryson's History of Everything.

And for my suggestion, how about some Terry Pratchett? The Amazing Maurice and His Educated Rodents would be fun. Or Wee Free Men.

How old is the girl in relation to the rest of the class? Are you in a community where a lot of people hold their kids back? I ask because in my community, the cutoff for K is Dec 1. A LOT of people hold their Sept/Oct/Nov birthday kids back just as a matter of course. Then again, some people send their kids because they can and feel they're ready. This leads to a huge, huge social imbalance in the classroom. You have one kid who turned 6 in Sept and another kid who won't even turn 5 until Nov 30 - all in the same K classroom. The differences between 4 and 6 year olds socially is night and day, especially girls. I had a friend whose daughter falls on the young end of the spectrum. She also has a mild but visible physical disability (I hesitate to call it that, because she can outrun my daughter, but her legs are a few inches different in length). This has been a horrible horrible year for her socially. Academically, she's fine. Her parents recently decided to hold her back. Of course, the fall-out hasn't happened yet, but the child is elated. She's so so thrilled that she doesn't have to continue on with that class, and that she'll have a friend in kindergarten when she does it again next year (a good friend who happens to be a year younger). She doesn't think of it as a punishment or judgment on her worth, but as a treat - how many kids get to go to kindergarten TWICE. Kudos to her parents for framing it that way.

So, for that child, in that situation, it's been a good choice, or at least looks to be now. It was made almost entirely for reasons of social development.

That said, I'd be more inclined to try to change schools instead of holding her back. Is this possible? I went to a small elementary (two classes of 16 per grade) and we had a kid who was held back after 2nd grade, I think for social reasons (as an adult, I'd say he probably has aspergers, but of course there was no aspergers back then). It followed him for the rest of his time at that school. Kids were merciless about it, and he was already a child who was having social difficulties.

If it were a perfect world, I'd recommend switching schools and keeping her in the same grade. But it's not perfect, so there you go.

What about asking the OT people if they have any ideas for outdoor play? I bet they have seen and heard it all, and may even have some good ideas about things that are Useful For Patrick, but still Fun For All.

If people want to try the neti pot goodness but with household tools, put 1/4 tsp of salt in 1 cup warm water, and use a medicine dropper (those ones you get with kiddy meds are SO handy for this) to dribble it into your nose. then gargle with the saltwater to get the stuff in the back of your throat.

What RIchelle said! I like the squeeze bottle better than the pot...a little more forceful. Plus, it goes by faster; I always felt like the netti pot took too long and gave up before all the liquid emptied out.

Also, both my ENT and allergist recommend the bottle over the pot.

But either is better than neither, that's for sure! Discovery of the netti pot a few years ago changed my life.

We held our daughter back in the 2nd grade. We were actually moving so she would repeat the 2nd grade in another elementary in our district. This decision was made becasue of her social immaturity. She was a September birthday and was 4 years old for a full month of school when she began. So with the help of her teacher we made the decision to retain. When socially immature students hit High School it is much more difficult. This gave our daughter time to mature a bit and not fall behind in her studies. She just graduated from the Univeristy of Michigan with a BS in Electrical Engineering. So not all retentions turn out bad!

Has he read the Charlie Bone books? My son is RE-reading them, he thinks they're so good. They've got to be out on audio .....

Audiobooks are a Godsend in the car!

Artemis Fowl series(author - Eoin Colfer) is a definate must!

Percy Jackson series is wonderful.

The Mysterious Benedict Society series is very cute with pretty young characters. No 'grown up' circumstances (author - Trenton Lee Stewart)

The Chronicles of Narnia - granted some people love these and some people hate them, but I adored them as a kid.

Tamora Pierce writes wonderful YA books (I think someone else mentioned them above) The Alanna series and the Trickster series are the only ones I've listened to. Both of them get a little 'grown up' as the series progresses.

Have Fun!

For Patrick--I don't know if this is along the lines you are thinking, but my mother got my 4-year-old son an EzyRoller (www.ezyroller.com) for his birthday, and he adores it. It's nice and low to the ground, but both my son and his older friends adore it. You do, however, need quite a bit of concrete or paved surface to be able to use it.

I think I read somewhere on your blog that Steve played ultimate frisbee, I bet just taking Patrick out to throw and catch a couple of times a week would really help with the coordination, especially if you focus on off-handed catching.

Bookwise, what about Brian Jacques and his Redwall series, they are in the adult fantasy section of the bookstore, but I started reading them around age 11 after I read Watership Down, and I still love them.

AYR. It's the toddler version of a neti pot. You're welcome.

Thank you to everyone who has offered their perspective on grade retention. It is much appreciated!

Kate turns 7 this month, so I don't know that chronologically she is really that young. I think it is in comparison to a bunch of kids that are either second or third children, instead of the oldest, and kids who have been in big preschools instead of home with mom. Current school is small with two 1st grade classes of 16 kids each, almost all of whom all went to kindergarten together (Kate too). I don't anticipate much moving in or out of the neighborhood either, so yes, my fear is that she will look very out of step.

Again, thank you to Julia for allowing me access to your thoughts and to anyone who offers their experiences!

I would think holding her back would not be a bad idea.

I was a very bright but socially immature child, and was not held back. I remember having more trouble when I interacted with people above my level than below. In public school, the material was *never* challenging, even above grade level. I think repeating and falling back with younger children might give her valuable social confidence.

Kids can be very cruel and judgmental. If she's already fallen into a role of an outcast or unpopular type, it would be easier for her to make friends with kids who aren't in the habit of treating her that way. Also, it's very easy to fall into 'I know these people don't like me so I won't even try' - different kids could alleviate that.

In our district, a handful of kids per class would repeat kindergarden, I think mostly for maturity issues - couldn't sit still &c. As kids, we knew this was happening, and mostly who those kids were, but a grade or two later it was all forgotten, so it's hardly a lasting social stigma.

I agree with previous posters that the ideal solution would be to move her to a different school and keep her in the same grade, but that could understandably be infeasible.

You just had to reference Adam Ant. I heard Strip (Yay! for Pandora)yesterday and it stuck in my head all day. Now its back.

Absolutely do not hold back the 1st grader. I'm a school psychologist and as others have mentioned, there is a ton of research out there about retention. It's almost always a very bad idea, and if anyone from the school pressures you to consider it I'd challenge them to produce any evidence (research studies, not anecdotal) to the contrary.

It sounds like you have a plan for catching up academically, but a social skills plan is just as important. If there are any girls in her class that she'd like to be friends with, set up some playdates over the summer and do what you can to make them a success. Don't hover, but prep her beforehand and talk about it afterwards. The aim would be that when she goes back in the fall she'll have at least one real friend, because that can make a huge difference.

For an outdoor toy, how about a dome climber?

http://www.domeclimber.com/index.php

We had an old-school trampoline when we were growing up and LOVED it. We were bad children...we would generate enough height to jump onto the garage roof and then do somersaults from the roof to the trampoline. My mother does not know to this day that I once misjudged my jump, crashed into the side of the garage and knocked myself out for several minutes, during which all the neighbor kids and my siblings fled the scene. So, that's something to think about! :)

I think Patrick would love Percy Jackson. My ten year old read them last year, and loved it so much that I had to cobble together an Aphrodite costume for Halloween this year. I am still finding glitter when I sweep the bathroom.

I would be hesitant to hold one of my kids back, especially if they are already a little bit on the outs with the other kids. I'm gonna echo the advice of others and urge you to get her socially involved over the summer. The friendships she builds will carry over to the school year.

I'm not a teacher or anything, but here's my experience; take from it what you will:

I went to a very small rural school down the road for elementary school (like, 4 classrooms for 6 grades small) and my sister who is a year older than me was not so good with the social or academic stuff. My parents didn't hold her back because it would have meant dropping her into my class. Likewise, they couldn't move me ahead, even though I was the only "gifted" student in my whole elementary school and bored out of my mind. Looking back, the ideal solution would have been to try to make arrangements for us to go to different schools that fit us better, but that luxury wasn't an option and never even considered back then.

My parents did, ultimately, hold her back for 1/2 a year when she was to transition from jr high to high school. We were semestered and in a bigger school in town at that point, and she wasn't going to be in my home room. I don't think she ever forgave them for holding her back. Nor do I believe she benefitted from it; she strongly felt the stigma of being held back and didn't, as far as I can tell, advance further academically or socially.

I forgot to add...

I loved the Lemony Snicket books, and if there really is an audio version read by Tim Curry? WOW...holy awesome, Batman!

Also, does the Neti pot really work? I have chronic sinusitis and a deep fear of anything-especially water- going up my nose. I've had some success treating flareups with a menthol inhaler, but I'd like to have something in reserve if I start developing a tolerance for that.

My only comment is Steve is okay with the giant slip and slide of death, but the trampoline gives him pause?

Maybe I don't understand his objections. Husband's can be funny that way.

My son (very bright but young for his class and socially awkward at the time) benefitted greatly one summer from playing with a child younger than him. They became best buddies for the summer, and it allowed him to develop social skills that he didn't have before. Somehow that translated into being more socially adept the next year in school, and when we later mentioned it to his teacher she said she had often seen that happen. So maybe your friend could find situations where her daughter can play with younger children over the summer.

Do you have a GoodReads.com account? I didn't want one because the idea of having one more frakking password made me sizzle but now I have one and I love it. Mostly I love the "To Read" feature. You add books to your account and you can categorize them as "Reading" "Read" or "To Read." So when someone recommends a book to me and I agree I put it in Good Reads and mark it as To Read. When it's time to venture to the book store or library I just have to check Good Reads to see what I'm interested in.

Don't worry. We think Edward is beautiful too. I personally lean toward a young Marlon Brando or James Dean.

I just wanted to chime in with the holding back or not. My sister was held back in the 3rd grade because by that time my Mother realized that she was both academically & socially unable to keep up. My Mom was spending hours each night helping her with homework, and my sister was very small (immature and physically small) and treated more like a doll than a friend in her classroom. My Mom switched her to a different elementary school, but the junior high and high schools were all the same, so in the end she ended up back with the kids she started out, only a year behind. We didn't have opportunities to socialize outside of school much because we lived on a ranch 30 mi from town and had to ride the bus home (no extra-curricular activities until I got my license). Also, my sister was premature and born at the end of August, so she should have been born in mid-October. So, those facts given, I will tell you, that although my Mom feels that it was the best decision they could have made for her due to her inablity to catch up academically or socially, it was hard on her to be held back and she had issues with self-esteem etc. all through her teenage years. (not only because of that, but certainly it didn't help). So, I would say, if you think you can involve your daughter in a lot of activities (esp. ones with different age groups, because she can be the teacher to the younger students), it will help her become more social - and if you feel you can have her academically caught up - then do it that way and don't hold her back. But, if you are pretty sure you will need to hold her back eventually, do it ASAP, because the earlier the better - they tend to forget at younger ages - 3rd grade was too late for my sister I think. It sounds like your daughter is not physically immature like my sister was (she's 7, etc.) so I think she probably can be caught up - she might need more intense work (or play as the case may be) due to her hearing problem, that can cause a lot of issues in learning until you get a handle on it (my cousin was mostly deaf due to unchecked allergies for his first 2-3 years - it took a lot of speech and other therapy to catch him up - just because he was delayed due to that). So, in summary, based on what you've said, I'd say involve her with a lot of various age activities (or if you have Montessori school or summer classes in your area, try one of those), help her learn social interactions, try to get her playing with girls in her class, and don't hold her back. Unless you feel that it isn't going to be possible for her to ever catch up, and then you had better hold her back right now rather than wait another year. So, good luck!

Loved the audiobook of Igraine the Brave by Cornelia Funke.
(would listen to anything the actress had read on audiobooks)

liza

Have you considered a small trampoline? Like the exercise kind? It is easier to limit to one kid at a time, can be used indoors or out, and would give Patrick a chance to practice some coordination skills without the same risk of injury as a fullsize one.

What is the plugin required to view the video. When I go to the stie download it, I get the message that it's not available. (I'm on a Mac.)

Freddy the Pig by Walter R. Brooks, read by John McDonough. http://bit.ly/a3dnha

They are a bit old fashioned, but the writing is very good.

Love you, love your blog, delurking (again) to say how utterly delightful I find those children of yours--YUM. But! For shame: I've now wasted more than an hour on My Shape. I see more wasted work time in my future, and I have no plans on buying anything. However, if you do purchase something (e.g., jeans or skirt), and you don't mind sharing your shape and shopping results, I'd be most appreciative. I'm short, curvy (ahem), and generally hard to fit.

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