We Went To The Zoo Zoo Zoo

I got Edward up yesterday morning and even though it was almost nine he was still very sleepy. I left him on the couch while I went to make his breakfast. You know, I have a whole new respect for the posted breakfast hours of a B&B - getting Caroline and Edward and Patrick to all eat at the same time each morning requires a militancy I clearly do not possess. Patrick is more of a bruncher - he doesn't really want to eat until he's been awake for a couple of hours. I sympathize with this. Caroline is a vole - she likes to eat a bit and then a bit of something else fifteen minutes later and then a tiny bit more fifteen minutes after that. Edward, meanwhile, will open his eyes and ask, "Eat uh yiddle sumpching?" and by a yiddle he means three bowls of oatmeal and two cartons of yogurt and a banana and maybe some Cheerios and then a piece of toast and half a pound of grapes.

Where was I? Oh right. Edward was sleepy so I left him on the couch while I went to get his full English and when I returned I found this

there was something so sweet about his chunky little boy frame tucked into the fetal position - toes folded inward and all. 

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On a more or less daily basis the thing I feel most guilty* about is how infrequently I do anything interesting with Caroline and Edward. I mean we do things but we generally do them at home. A big week for us involves the library. So our recent car trips have been a revelation to them. Like, so the whole time we've been home getting excited when you break out the watercolors there has been all this STUFF out here?

And I'm like well uh yeah I guess so hey you want to make some play dough? I'll add food coloring! And Caroline and Edward try to jimmy open a window

So (when I am not freaking out about this article - thank you so much for the commune help; you were absolutely invaluable) I have been trying to get out more and as a result today the whole family went to the zoo.

Edward saw a tiger.

 

First Patrick feigned disinterest

then he recruited Caroline and staged a sit-in.

 

There was a slightly scary bear

 

which prompted a reassuring hug

and an even more reassuring Snoopy-esque kiss

Holy cats (I say holy cats! so Caroline and Edward say holy cats! and every time they do it Patrick looks at me accusingly as says, "Now look what you've done." Patrick disapproves of my meaningless slang) but holy cats! could that picture be any cuter?  

Halfway to the zoo I realized that we had forgotten the stroller and I thought OH DAMN IT. The zoo is big. Caroline and Edward are little. I had visions of them making it about twenty feet before we had to carry them from exhibit to exhibit in the blazing sun. Steve said it would be fine. Patrick said we should just forget about the whole thing and turn the car around. I was inclined to agree with Patrick but Steve's set face and palpable disdain at my neurotic conviction that unrestrained two year olds are 500% more likely to be eaten by tigers won the day. So we drove and I fretted and when I got there I discovered that the zoo rents double strollers for $7.

SOLD!

This reminds me of an interaction we had at Tyler Place. Another couple there had twins who are about two weeks younger than Caroline and Edward. We saw them one day as we were all heading toward the Toddler Playhouse. Caroline and Edward were in their stroller; the other twins were poking along under their own steam. The father with whom we had spoken a few times came over and peered at Caroline and Edward.

"Well well well," he said. "So these two are the same age as ours, eh?"

Then he said, "They look so much more... constrained."

And I said, "Ah."

And he said, "Huh."

And a bicyclist swerved to avoid his daughter who was spread-eagle on the road and we strolled on and he went to talk her through the next ten feet. 

I have spent the past four weeks coming up with witty rejoinders as to why I preferred to make the mile walk from our cabin to the toddler playhouse with Caroline and Edward securely stowed in a locked and upright position but too late, alas.

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*Guilt. I mean I feel most guilty about this in the narrow confines of parenting. After I typed it I wondered what I feel most guilty about, in my entire life, period, and the subsequent mental gymnastics I performed to answer this question amused me.

"Oh I know!" I would think. "I feel really guilty about that time I got caught making fun of that woman in college who cited Yom Kippur when she publicly forgave me for having been mean to her boyfriend who had been my boyfriend, like, three years earlier."

But then I would think about it some more and I realized that it wasn't guilt I was feeling; it was embarrassment. I was embarrassed that she was standing directly behind me as I gave a fairly deadly impersonation of her but I don't really feel guilty about it. I still think she was being ridiculous. This kept happening. I kept remembering things and then I would confuse feeling guilty about them with being really really embarrassed. I wondered why until I realized that both emotions are founded in shame; one is just more vinegary. 

Ultimately I decided that the thing I feel most guilty about is being horrible to a guy named Ed Hubbard who tried very hard to help me as I was busy trying to drown myself in alcohol during law school. The nicer he was the more I took advantage of him and the lower I sank and I feel terrible about it to this day. I almost want to Facebook him but that would involve Facebook (which I do not do) and a message that would start like something from the AA forgiveness speech (which would be misleading.) I don't know. Maybe I should track him down. What did Nora Ephron decide was the statue of limitations on apologies?

As for embarrassment I have no idea why it stays so scorching no matter how much time has elapsed. Seriously, why is that? I can remember how it felt to be hopelessly in love with any number of people when I was 16 but I certainly am no longer in love with any of them. Why do I still feel just as embarrassed now about completely misunderstanding what that one guy was trying to tell me (ohhhh THAT kind of coke. and that kind of gay - uh, wow) as I did at the time?

What do you think? What keeps its emotional freshness for you? Anger? Affection? I still say embarrassment trumps all but I'm willing to hear other takers. What's still keeping you cringing or moaning or clenching your fists years later?

Comments

[Jen]

Cringeworthiness, hands down. I remember being angry, but I don't usually feel angry again. I remember being ecstatic, but I don't feel more than some happiness at remembering.

But embarrassing situations? Right back in there, feeling the feeling. There's a good reason my childhood diary was thrown away by my teenage self -- it prevented me from having to cringe through it ever again!

[Kate]

Yeah, embarassment takes it. And whenever you write one of these types of posts about past mistakes it makes me sigh in a relieved sort of way and be comforted that I'm not the only one who thinks about this stuff. Thank you.

[Jill]

When I was in second grade I did some really embarrassing things to try to get the attention of a third-grade-boy (including love notes! with hearts!). I still burn with embarrassment when I think about it. I remember an older girl laughing and talking about it. Auck. I hope I never see her again.

Your kids are all adorable.

[Carrie]

Love the When Harry met Sally reference. 10 years for apologies....might have missed the boat, sorry!

[Hermia]

Embarrassment for sure. I have moments when I catch myself reliving some mortifying moment from a decade ago. And then I try to tell myself that I have to be absolutely the only one who still remembers.

Also, Caroline and Edward have the same nose.

[HereWeGoAJen]

Eh, maybe he'll Google himself someday, discover this post and realize you are sorry.

Now, what were the comebacks you came up with? I need to store them for future use. I'm already getting the comments about keeping my 19 month in a stroller. She's...let's just say busy, and I NEED the stroller.

[unexplained]

Regretting something I've said. Hangs on for YEARS.

[janonymous]

Years ago, I agreed to go to my dear friend "Mr. D's" company dinner function as his date, but then I left it early to go see a friend's band play, and hang out with a guy I kind of liked. I felt guilty about leaving Mr. D there with his coworkers and no date, but 4 yrs later I married Mr. D, so I have paid penance with many, many business dinners since then, and have not left a single one early, even when 9 months pregnant.

[Rayne of Terror]

Regret and embarrassment keep me up at night years later, but I have a mantra for those situations. I repeat "I forgive myself" until I go to sleep and don't let any more thoughts creep in. I say it quite forcefully in my head to keep out the cringe inducing memories.

[Lawmommy]

Um...I can't get past this sentence, "was busy trying to drown myself in alcohol during law school."

Because, quite frankly, Miss Julia, I've been reading you for something like...3 and a half years now, and I cannot recall that you've ever mentioned that you are ONE of US.

(Nonetheless, we all tried to drown ourselves in alchohol in law school. I, personally, was drowning in slightly less alcohol than my classmates, but I was also breastfeeding a baby. How I managed to make it through without killing myself or someone else I don't know.)

[Cris]

Anger at myself for something I feel like I should have known and was too blindingly stupid to catch. I suppose in a way its similar to embarrassment, but its not about the publicly being caught out, but an inward fury at being in a situation I would not be in, if I had been smarter.

So, anger at myself at not getting a second opinion and then doing IVF w/PGD after the first genetic counselor told us there was very little chance we'd have a live born child with an unbalanced translocation after my husband's BT was diagnosed. Anger at having done an IVF w/PGD but using my husband's sperm, which slashed all my lovely eggs to genetically unbalanced pieces, when we so clearly should have used sperm donation. Anger at myself just this past Saturday (the anniversary of getting the bad amnio results) for getting pulled over for speeding, when I had just been thinking "It is stupid to be going this fast on an empty freeway on a holiday weekend to go someplace I know I shouldn't be going to assuage sadness I shouldn't be feeling" and being so preoccupied thinking that, that I sped right by the cop and got a ticket.

Just stupid, and I have a hard time letting go of it. Although, I suppose really its anger at being unable to predict and control the universe. I need to get over it, so if you can follow up with bright ideas on how you will be letting go of your embarrassment, it would be much appreciated!

Lovely post, by the way. Cam's OT at school kept making snide sideways comments (you know, not directly TO me, just AT me, about me, but in the third person) about how "Mommy needs to let you walk, doesn't she, Camden?" After about 5 of those I finally said, "He walks at school for two hours, doesn't he? But I don't have half an hour to get him from the car to the door, so I'm going to pick him up sometimes." I need to be repeatedly insulted to finally come up with something and get it out of my mouth at the same time. Surprise insults get nothing but a gaping mouth and stunned silence.

[Ellie]

She's definitely mentioned law school before, not sure she finished, though? Julia?

Embarrassment, yes that's the worst. I don't think I can share any of those stories, though. I can barely stand to think them!

[Jessica]

Guilt and shame are differentiated by a public/private significance; or, internal/external. Guilt comes from inside and is your own judgment of your own wrongdoing - shame comes from your experience that others, outside of yourself, are judging your wrongdoings. Of course in real life they can be experienced together or in varying ratios depending on the situation. Embarrassment is generally thought of as another word for shame - they're usually used interchangeably.

As for why the shame stays scorching - and my god it certainly can! - there are probably several answers to this. Shame is hypothesized to have a role in children's social learning (eg children conform to parental dictates and examples because the alternative is to be corrected/shamed). It couldn't work this way if it wasn't powerful and easily accessed.

Shame's power may also be related to the internalized set of expectations and standards we get from our caregivers in early life (Freud called it the superego). These introjects act as a sort of internal policeman who applies the rules rather indiscriminately, to actual behaviours but also to mere thoughts - including memories.

And there will also be an idiosyncratic element - I may be more affected by memories of shame than you are, and you may be more easily triggered into anger than I am. Put another way, the mechanisms that protect or prevent us from accessing particular emotional experiences vary person to person.

But I think most folks would agree that guilt and shame are probably the two most aversive feelings we can have.

[Kristine]

Oh yes, definitely embarrassment. Some episodes still haunt me.

That first picture of Edward is adorable! I love when Kiel sleeps like that, which isn't often unfortunately, since he still sleeps stretched out on top of or someway around me.

Perhaps you can get Tyler Place to host a special mom blogger week/convention and give us special rates. After hearing you rave about it for two years I am insistent we get there sometime in the next year or ten.

[kris (lower case)]

embarrassment is forever...that should be embroidered somewhere... i can remember EVERY embarrasing thing i ever did but forget 90% of the nice things i have done...

[Julia]

I am a law school dropout. Speak to me of torts and we're cool, go much beyond that I will look at you with pitiful incomprehension.

Jessica your comment is absolutely fascinating. It also makes complete sense to me, I think. I feel guilty about Ed because I was acting in opposition to my own code of honor; I merely feel guilty about the college woman because I was caught in the act of being unkind and that is not how I want other people to see me?

Don't you think, though, - and this is a sincere question as you clearly know a great deal more than I do - that there is at the very least a semantic difference between shame and embarrassment? Anyone can zip their underwear into their dress and although it is embarrassing I would argue that a mostly healthy person does not carry a great deal of shame over having done so. Shame to me seems more wrought and more significant but I am willing to be educated to the contrary.

[Abby Spice]

All I can say, and all I will say for the rest of the night and possibly tomorrow, is:
How about you, you, you?
You can come too, too, too.
We're going to the zoo, zoo, zoo.

Fact: When my little brother was about 4 and I was about 12 and we had just moved and neither of us had any friends and my mom put me in charge so she could unpack, I used to plop him on the couch and act out that entire song. And the rest of the Tom Paxton CD it was on.

Um, I was going to answer the actual question, but I've had a little too much wine for that and am getting sleep, sleep, sleepy.

[christina]

Interesting - I always thought the things that haunted me provoked anger, but I now realise that they are potent because it is very embarrassed anger... such as from in senior when a "cool" guy was ordering the jerseys and I ordered 'Tine' and got 'Teen'... an unwearable and horribly physical reminder of my social inabilities as well as my inability to stand up for myself (which, on reflection, is perhaps where the embarrassment comes in). Ugh.

[crystal]

Brain damage rocks. I have the attention span of a gnat now.

If you told me this would be so 10, even 8 years ago, I would have pried my angsty hands from my weeping eyes and killed you with them.

Who would have thought brain damage is useful?

Unfortunately I would have had many great answers for this once upon a time, and I still have a vague notion of such feelings, but the details? Strangely absent.

[Meredith]

Shame and guilt, simmered up together in my brain for about nine years now - impossible for me to distinguish, even with Jessica's helpful explanation.

I was in an airport in Latin America and accused a ticketing agent who was charging me extra money of planning to pocket it himself. I had no idea where such a racist and nasty accusation came from and instantly felt horrendous, but it was too late, it had left my mouth. This memory pops into my head every few months and induces cringes every time. My multitude memories of embarrassment, mostly from youth, are nothing compared to this feeling.

[Pam L]

Yeah, embarrassment IS the king of bad memories. You want to go back and fix what you did , or said, but you can't so you are sentenced to cringing every time you remember it. Guilt is second but I don't have a lot of that. The things I feel some guilt for are things that happened during my growth from naive adolescent to mature adult and I probably would have done one way or another anyway, with someone else, some other situation etc. I feel it's better to leave these things in the past unless you are face to face with a person you might want to apologize to, and then only if it seems they need to hear it more than you need to say it to ease your guilt.

[Cris]

Julia - you provoke the most interesting comments. I always check back to read what everyone else has said.

[jemy]

Oh man,

I don't know what this is, but I just recently was talking to a friend who told me two mostly strangers had written me off as a human being. I had last seen them 5 years before. What could I possibly have done? (I replied). She asked me if I remember telling an inappropriate story to them at a mutual friends wedding. I certainly did, because I have a terrible habit of telling inappropriate (usually morbid) stories. This one in particular was about a guy who died of a heart attack and the hospital gave all of his stuff to his mistress who they thought was his wife. So yes, inappropriate, and they kept telling me they didn't want to hear it, but man... it was such a great story! And when a story is that weird and awful it must be told! But seriously, still thinking I'm an idiot 5 years later? Who cares? Move on. Now I'M never going to get over it.

Also me telling that story at a wedding is nowhere near as bad as having a heart attack while with your mistress. Just saying.

[JessicaD]

I remember at one stage as a child, I was horribly disappointed every time I looked in the mirror...this was before the blemishes of adolescence, so I was a pretty all-right looking kid really. The problem was that I'd constructed an entirely different image of myself in my mind. With my head always stuck in books, I had conjured up an image of myself as beautiful, refined, even adult. The mirror reflected a child with a blunt freckled nose. I think shame and embarrassment work like that for me. It's the feeling I have when I do something that unequivocally denounces my best idea of Me, and reflects the sadly less impressive reality instead. Does that make sense? It's worse when there have been witnesses, as I can't trick myself into believing it never happened. I believe in being kind to yourself, but I still can't stop cringing at some memories.

[TeacherMommy]

The things that make my insides twist into that stinging ache years later are precisely the kinds of things that no one else probably even remembers. Like the time at that football game in college when I saw a guy I thought was in one of my classes and so I started chatting with him about it and then he and his friends started laughing and I turned away and sat there in redfaced horror for the entire remainder of the game because I realized that the guy I was thinking of didn't even have a beard and how could I possibly be so STUPID STUPID STUPID and socially awkward??????

Yeah. Stuff like that.

[jan]

It used to be over moments or incidents where I was judged unworthy, unattractive, unsophisticated or not intelligent enough. Now I could give a flying fiss, because these things are so relative and subjective (and I'm nearing 60). What remains strong is remembered and continuing guilt, particularly over a certain behavior some 20 plus years ago that was most definitely wrong -- not the breaking of a U.S. law, but of a moral law. I can make no good excuse, nor amends. As for outings with the twins, isn't Minnesota the Land o Lakes? I know you belong to the gym, but how about a beach outing? The water must be warm even there by now. There is also the children's theater in the city that I mentioned in a post long ago, and a children's museum, I think. Do you have enough wind to fly kites at this time of year?

[Naomi]

Embarrassment is forever, but it absolutely has to be the embarrassment about something I said or did, not some trivial thing like, "hey, did you know your pants split wide open and everyone saw your underwear?" It wasn't until a few years ago that I quit beating myself up for a stupid thing I said when I was ten.

[sarah k]

I am so, so glad to learn that I am not the only person who remembers these kinds of things. It's always the stupid things I said or did, the ways I gave away that I liked a guy when I wish I would have had the confidence to wait to let him show if he was interested...the thoughtless things I said that offended someone...even the rude comment I made when I was about SEVEN to a sweet little boy who was a friend for many years afterwards (until he died at the age of 24, and then I hated myself even more for having ever been mean to him; and I am SURE he had forgiven me years before and never thought about it again, but I still cringe--I suppose that embarrassment is actually morphed into true shame by the later circumstances...). Anyway, sometimes I get all distracted while I'm doing something with my kids and suddenly realize that I'm not paying them much attention because I am obsessing over something that happened TEN or more years ago...and I have to laugh a little. And try to focus on the present. And be humble and realize people aren't always going to like me and I'm not always going to do the right thing...that's why the world needs grace...and that includes me. :)

[Laur]

For me it's more like regret: regret over lost opportunities to do Something Good, or regret for not acting/reacting better. Sometimes I wish I had come up with a zinger comeback, other times I wish I had stood up for myself or taken charge of the situation somehow. The feelings that last for me are from the times I wish I could go back and do them over again.

[Marsha]

I regret deeply being, if not outright mean then decidedly unpleasant, to a door-to-door Christmas card salesman who came to the office where I worked at the time. This was fifteen years ago or so, and I think of him and wish I'd been more welcoming. He so clearly needed to make the sale(s) and was working so hard. Since then I try - although frequently fail - to live by that old chestnut about only doing things you can live with seeing plastered on the front page of the New York Times.

And? I thought it was an unfinished MBA rather than JD. Maybe I'm thinking of someone else, though.

[Kelli]

I have no problem with 2 year olds in a stroller. My 4 year old still uses the stroller when we go to the zoo. Not any where else, really, but our zoo is REALLY hilly and REALLY big and we have one of those sit'n'rides where he can get in and out at will. It's either that or listen to him gripe and take FOREVER to see even a small part of the zoo. He walks when he wants, rides when he wants and we're all much happier that way. I think , however, that this is the last summer for him in the stroller as his sister is getting too small for the front seat.

I have a few things I remember with deep pangs of regret. One is a comment I made to 5 of my students my third year of teacher. They were being pretty awful in class, I didn't know how get them to behave, and I said something meant to cut them down and put them in their place. I regretted it the moment it came out of my mouth and have wanted to apologize every day ever since. The only redeeming thing is that it colors every comment I make to every one of my students today and I think I am a much more patient and kind teacher because of it. Still....

[Kelli]

Err....too BIG. His sister is getting too BIG for the front seat.

[Hetty Fauxvert]

First, I also lock up my 3 yo twins in their double stroller whenever possible. It just makes life so much LESS ... interesting. We have only recently graduated to getting to walk beside the stroller, holding onto it, while Mama guides the stroller. At this rate, we'll still be using it when they leave for college.

As for the emotion that keeps on giving ... I cringe to admit it, but for me it is anger. Embarrassment & guilt fade after a while, but anger is fresh and hot every time I think of something bad that happened. (Though in my defense, it generally takes quite a bit to anger me.) I think anger is my default negative emotion because I grew up in such a (quite frankly) crummy birth family. I was low kid on the totem pole and caught all the sh*t that fell downhill. Bad place to be. I'm still angry.

And I also say holy cats! LOL! I started sayng it when I reformed my pre-mommyhood vocabulary into something more suitable for toddler ears. (One of my earlier favorite phrases was, "F*** a duck!" which, while amusing, is not exactly what you want to hear back atcha from a two yo.) So ... Holy Cats!!! :)

[LMM]

OK, first of all, that dad at Tyler was totally jealous. Really. He may have sounded snotty and judgmental, but inside he was cursing that it was taking them an hour to go 30 feet.

Embarrassment and guilt are equally fresh for me. I still get red-faced thinking about a particularly embarrassing high school episode which involved a boy announcing to the entire student section at a basketball game that the boy I had a crush on and was two years older than me had arrived. And guilt over the time when I was 12 and let the family dog out one night while my parents weren't home and forgot...and he stayed out for hours eventually being hit by a car...lying there suffering...until we found him and had to have him put down. I will never get over it. Never.

[elsimom]

My youngest is about the same age as your twins. We use the stroller for big outings and it is ABSOLUTELY for our convenience, and not because she needs it -BUT- sometimes time is of the essence, and others it is not. It's no fun for anyone if we spend all our time saying "C'mon, C'mon" - and I can only imagine that if you multiply that times two, it is actually some sort of exponential relationship.....

As for outings - yesterday we went to the Dragon Boat Festival on Lake Phalen and I recommend it highly to Twin Cities folks if they are free next summer - it was great! There were the actual dragon boat races - crewed by various corporate and non-profit teams- and then martial arts demos, cultural dance demos, a marketplace and food! The food was reasonably priced too - making it easy to sample lots of different delicacies. The shuttle service was well organized and prompt. An excellent Fest!(Duly noted that we are a family who loves a good Fest!)
Also - in my opinion - while the Como zoo can be managed without a stroller, the "big zoo" as we call it-is pretty tough sledding. What I love about those rental strollers is that the kids can jump out to see stuff, and jump back in, really easily.

Drowning in alcohol - I probably mentioned this last time it came up - but I think I drank more in my first year of law school than in the my whole life previous, and it took me about 5 years afterward to imbibe the same amount . . .

Finally - shame. I concur in your linguistic distinction between embarassment and shame - it is the shame that stings . . .

[Heather Z.]

I also love the When Harry Met Sally reference.

Strollers are a most excellent and useful parenting tool.

Once, a couple of decades ago a friend I was talking to was referencing Rush (as in Limbaugh), but I thought he was referencing Rush (as in the Canadian rock band.) Still cringe. Although I do think that while I clearly remember many embarrassing incidents from my life...the other parties involved forgot them long ago.

[SarahB]

I'm so glad someone else mentioned anger. That's what sticks with me sometimes: instances in which I felt pure rage and wish I had acted differently (namely, stood up for myself to one particular former boss and my mother-in-law).

Yet, I could tie those to shame, because in some cases they were trying to shame or embarrass me, when they had no right to. And it's that feeling of being taken advantage of that really stings. It is very, very hard to let go of those feelings, and it creates a special challenge when, say, MIL is someone I'm going to have in my life for many years.

[Rachel]

A therapist *koff* told me that we shouldn't be humiliated by our mistakes, we should be humbled by them. Use them to be more compassionate towards other's mistakes. He earned his fee for that session.

He also said that embarrassment is about something you *do* whereas shame is about what you *are*. I do know that I overcame my inability to poop in public by repeating to myself "everybody poops, everybody poops".

There, wasn't that helpful?

[PiquantMolly (AKA Mollywogger)]

I felt horribly, horribly guilty for leaving my perfectly nice first husband that I just was not in love with for quite a while. The guilt was truly excruciating.

Then he neglected to remove my name from the title to the condo and quit making payments. The condo went into foreclosure, ruining my credit for the foreseeable future. That cured a whole hell of a lot of guilt. But I don't recommend it as a cure for anyone else.

[Shawna]

Just this past week I was giving my husband heck for buying a new umbrella stroller for our 2-year-old when he was out and discovered he'd left our regular stroller in the garage. I'm kind of frugal though. But even I had to admit it came in handy yesterday when we got to the lunch place and the toddler was fast asleep. (grumble, grumble, it would have been just as handy had he put the regular stroller in the car, grumble)

I know Kelli meant "his sister is getting too BIG for the front seat", but I get a chuckle out of picturing the incredible shrinking baby. Hee.

[Erika]

Just posting to say that I love your Peter, Paul and Mommy title. One of my favorite CDs ever...

[Meegan]

Embarrassment for sure, sticks with me for a looong time. I can easily turn my own stomach with a trip down memory lane. Good times!

I love that you say "Holy cats!". I'm trying to find better ways to express myself in a surprised fashion, aside from my old standard, "Holy shit!". Because, you know, the kids. I might try out your "cats". I've been substituting "smokes" but it just doesn't fit me. "Cats", you say....

[lizneust]

I beleive that expediency trumps independence every time when it comes to small children.

On the shame/guilt/embarrassment front, I attended a talk given by JoAnn Deak. Website here: http://www.deakgroup.com/ She said something that explained SO MUCH about my 3 AM self flagelation. I'm probably missing some of the fine points, but essentailly we are hard wired to remember everything that happens in that spectrum of emotion - down to the smallest detail - from our early teens through our mid-20s. I realized that I'm less likely to fret over dumb stuff that I did in my 30s than I am over stuff I did on my teens and 20s. Kind of wild.

[DKM]

hmmm...I can actually remember feeling really horrible about doing something mean to my dad, but I cannot for the life of me remember what it was. I remember thinking that I would never forget it and I would never get over it, but apparently I have since I can't remember the details.

Reading the other comments, I am feeling like there is something wrong with me...I do not have any embarrassing incidents burned in my memory. My husband and I often discuss this - I think I am more of a live in the moment, no regrets type. Which also means I'm not very sentimental and I don't do much reminescing (my husband is the opposite). But, I am very, very happy in my life and I focus on the here and now. Is that bad?

[kara]

Oh, I love these pictures!

I have done so many incredibly stupid, embarrassing things over the years. I cringe whenever I think about them and sincerely hope that nobody else thinks about them, EVER. But even more than that I would give anything to go back and behave differently at those times I have been truly unkind to other people. Usually I was aware on some level that I was being mean or at the very least that there were other, better choices available to me, and that's what puts them at the top of my "emotional freshness" list.

[Rupiedupie]

Shame from the past;
Watching the class bully place a thumbtack on the nerdy kids seat in 3rd grade.
(that I didn't stick up for him, then or anytime over the next 7 years)
That does haunt me.
I pray for the people I've hurt that way.
And I remind my children often, to be nicer to others, than what they think is required.

This is a really deep post to think through Miss Julia.

On to the lighter stuff...
What's that George Clooney cartoon movie? 'The Fantastic Mr.Fox' ?
"What the cuss!" "No cussing way!" etc etc etc...
"HOLY CATS!" So cute.

[G]

For me, with shame comes guilt. But there are a couple things for which I feel very guilty, but not ashamed. Why, I wonder.

[Jamie]

You're so right about the shame connection between embarrassment and guilt. What yucky - and annoyingly persistent - emotions. Damn these complex limbic systems of ours!

When I was about 14 I lived with my dad's brother, his wife and their two (at the time) kids while my parents tried to figure out their own separated and selfish lives. I am to this day embarrassed about a comment I made to my aunt once about hearing them have sex and saying that she "squealed like a pig". Because, ew, who says that?!? And just because, you know, I was young and virginal and naive and couldn't harness the maturity to cope with hearing consenting adults doing it down the hall.

Guilty: I was leaving the grocery store one day to see a little girl (maybe seven years old?) running from the car toward her Grandma who was exiting the store just behind me. The little girl looked distressed and the Grandma immediately assumed something was wrong with the younger child - the girl's brother presumably - who had also been waiting in the car. The Grandma, concerned, rushed passed the girl toward the car. I noticed the apple with one lonely bite taken out of it in the girl's hand, combined with the girl's distraught face and weak cry for her Grandma to come back, and figured out that the girl had the chunk of bitten apple caught in that terrible place in your throat between choking and swallowing. Why do I feel guilty? Because I did nothing. I knew the girl wasn't choking because she could talk. And the Grandma was on her way back to the girl, so I knew she would also figure this out and all would be well. But the little girl was scared and I could have stood with her and told her that everything would be alright during those four seconds it took her Grandma to return. But I kept walking.

Ouch. Did I just share these things with a total stranger on the internet?

Hi, nice to meet you. I'm Jamie, a terrible person. (shy and embarrassed, but not guilty, smile).

[Uccellina]

Holy cats, I was just having this conversation with a friend the other day! I thought I was past the point where mortification could burn and obsess my thoughts for, uh, far too long after the event. Then I, like Jemy above, made an ass of myself at a wedding.

Chatted with a semi-celebrity, someone I had a minor crush on, tried to give the short version of a very long story, was vague on some details and confused on others (hello, tipsy), and realized after the audience walked away with a contrived excuse that she totally thought I was a big ol' liar. Like other moments that have haunted me, this one was born of the knowledge that A) someone I liked/admired B) thought I was an ass C) for a plausible, if untrue, reason.

My understanding of the difference among shame, embarrassment, and guilt: Guilt is when you have or think you have harmed someone other than yourself. Shame is when you have violated your own personal standard for your own behavior. Embarrassment is when you perceive other people's negative opinion of you or your behavior, whether or not that perception is correct. The three often go together, but are not interchangeable.

And then there's mortification, when you just want to crawl into a hole and not come out until everyone has utterly forgotten that you exist, if even then. That would be how I felt at the wedding.

[Reba]

Don't contact Mr. Hubbard. Although there is a slim chance that an apology would be well received likely it will re-open a long healed wound for him.

My husband had a HORRIBLE high school experience. He was a late bloomer and now that he is handsome and successful and happy and has great friends I said casually one day "you must really want to see all those old jerks now eh?"

He looked at me with total shock and a bit of alarm and said "No. No I never want to see any of them ever again." I was suprised at the response and at how the pain was still only just below the surface even 15 years later.