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September 02, 2010

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My husband and I are both New England beach town people so that is where we live. However my second choice would be New York City while his second choice would be on a sailboat somewhere in the Caribbean.

We are already arguing about where we want to live when we retire. (I'm an introvert too -- there is no boat big enough for me to live on it with another person)

I laughed so hard at your "actual fear" paragraph because I can soooo relate - mine involved a dead husband, bankruptcy, foreclosure, homelessness and with my animals taken from me because I could no longer care for them properly.

To assuage one of your fears: with the passage of the National Health Care bill, you cannot be denied coverage or dropped from coverage any longer.

My husband and I are going through the Whither Shall We Reside? dilemma. He is quite a few years older than I and will be retiring in five years-ish. We have one son in San Diego, one in Hartford and my family in Minnesota. We've ruled out San Diego as it's too crowded, too expensive and the state is too messed up financially. But as soon as I think about heading to MN or CT, I start to whine about the long winters, mosquitoes, black flies, humidity (my god, the DEW POINT!) and lack of mountainous beauty.

But then I think about living in an area that is carpeted with trees, homes built actual acreage in the 1800's and fall foliage that presents with more than shades of yellow.

And then I veer back to thinking about all the sunny days, the lack of a seasonal affective disorder, cool nights in summer, winter snow storms which dump and run and leave bare streets two days later. And I am torn between personal comfort and yearning to be nearer to family. We miss so much having the boys over for football games and Sunday dinners. Sometimes, life is easier without choices.

Sorry to hear that you're still struggling. Good for you for recognizing it and getting help. I have been part of a Personal Renewal Group for Moms since last fall, and it has made a huge difference in my sanity, sense of balance, etc. The idea is to reflect on what YOU want for your life and to carve out the time and space you need to do it. There's another one starting in the Twin Cities in October. If you (or any readers) are interested, e-mail me and I can point you in the right direction.

Can I come to your cottage with you? It sounds lovely. I'm going to escape from midwestern summers as soon as I can.

And I will be putting your LL Bean tote bag idea to use first thing tomorrow. Or maybe tonight, if I can summon the energy...

It strikes me YOU need a night away. All by yourself, in a lovely hotel, with good food and a giant bath tub. I know you are being careful with money right now -- but it ends up being cheaper than other things, and one restorative night is more a necessity than a luxury.

The ffarm? And Steve disappearing? That is bullshit. And not nice. And disrespectful.
We have a cabin. Family time and each adult having alone time is essential to enjoying it.
I've dealt with lifelong anxiety. You're going to find that part of learning to live with it is expecting others to carry their weight so all of it does not fall to you. You might as well start practicing.

My girlfriends and I have made a pact that when the husbands keel over (so, not for another 30 years) or are (finally!) left (one of them - not mine - really needs to be left) we will all move into a house on the beach together and cackle together happily for the remaining years of our lives.

So, your last post was the final nudge I needed to finally make my own appointment 'see someone' (my own thanks to Jan, too). My husband and I 'saw someone' about 8 months ago, but she was really really awful (what I imagine therapy by Hilary Clinton would be). This time I will be on my own - no sharing the spotlight or having the therapist turn to my husband and ask "is that what you, the reasonable person in the relationship, think too?"

Going through the infertility, five miscarriages, daughter's hearing loss, son's cleft surgeries and permanent disability with trisomy 9, failed IVF and (wobbly) decision not to try again, and constant (PT, OT, ST, DT) appointments with the kids - I was too exhausted to even consider my own well being. And why would I want to go to therapy? Wouldn't it just feel worse to rehash it all and cry for an hour?

But when I read your last post I thought, "Oh, she shouldn't have to feel so sad. I really hope she gets help." And then it finally struck me that maybe I didn't want to feel sad all the damn time either, and perhaps I should get help too. And that help was really possible.

So, again, internet friend, thank you!

PS Before you go back to the ffarm, Steve needs to take the kids up there by himself. And soon...not "later", not after hunting season or when project X gets done but asap. It will make a huge difference in his perspective and you obviously need a real break. You're already paying for the place, use it!
If you are having doubts, consider this...do you want your three chickadees to believe that Dads can take care of their children for more than a few hours on their own? Do you want your boys to believe that Dads have fun while Caroline grows up believing that Moms stay with the kids with no breaks?
You cannot convey this stuff with words, you have to live it. There is no downside, do it!

Oh - and I can't wait for you to write that book! I was telling my sister about your blog and tried to find the dragon in the basement story to share with her, but couldn't find it anywhere.

Would you mind reposting it? Please?

I was born next to the Rockies, grew up in a city right next to large stretches of fertile farmland. I now live in small mountains, surrounded by trees and no farmable land, with a small (seasonalish) waterfall just off our property. I love the trees, I love the waterfall, I hate the mountains and lack of any people aside from vacationers (who're mostly jerks).

I see myself in a small town in New England - somewhere with old houses and community and farmland nearby. I need trees, I like the waterfalls but can live without them.

Oh, dear. I think it is your twin's ages. Mine were the same age when I thought I would eat them alive, then felt bad about myself for feeling that way. I STILL have to remind myself whether life is about a clean/organized kitchen or whether I am able to help the kids paint a picture or get a snuggle from me. It is hard to not want to shake the barnacle off your leg, though, isn't it?

Be kind and gentle with yourself and hug your kids often. The kitchen WILL be organized again someday, even if not now.

Two things: how's your iron level? When mine's low, I am too, often badly/sadly so. Other thing: have you thought about putting E in a PFD (life jacket) and letting him fall in? We used to do that with my little brother because he would NOT stay off the dock at the cabin and my mother had other things/people to attend to. He lived in his PFD until he learned how to swim (age 5)and became part-fish!!

So glad you persevered on the appointment. I hope that Steve got the sharp edge of your tongue for disappearing at the farm and reneging on his promise.

I agree with your assessment. My daughter is similar-introverted and gets in a funk easily. I have yet to convince her that her lack of organization contibutes. But she is 17 so nothing I say is right.

I hate the fly lady. I tried. I did. I could do it if I didn't have a husband and three kids-you understand.

Your farm looks beautiful but I agree. Not quite my idea of the best place. I need water and no mosquitoes. I can tolerate hot and don't like it too cold I'm not sure where that perfect place would be.

Seeing a councelor is great. An antideprssant or anit-anxiety can be beneficial. Trying out other non-medication options is also good.

I imagine a beach but not just any beach. for me, HOT is the key to happiness. I want it over a 100 every day. I want the asphalt to bubble. A beach would be nice but no east coast beach for me. I want the heat!

It always amazes me that there are people that WANT to be cold.

Yeah...I'm going to be bold and say the Steve running off by himself on the Westward movement fantasy and leaving you to worry about Westward movement-style accidents (threshers, ponds, siege) is not the coolest.

Since you live in an area your husband loves, might I suggest your next vacation be to the Oregon coast? It is wonderful. Your kind of landscape and a high level of foodie-ness. Fantastic.

I'm very glad you found a therapist and hope the first appointment plus the advent of some time for yourself improves your situation!

YES! Those testimonials, GAAAAH! I did sign up for the daily digest though, and it is good to just be able to look at the plan for the day and ignore the rest. "Like" on facebook is also a little helpful.

As far as your anxiety, I went and "Saw Someone" for quite a while, and while I think it is good to talk stuff out, it wasn't enough for me. (In fact, in some ways I think it just makes it worse because you end up reliving stuff that happened that you just can't do anything about now.) Lexapro's been a godsend, is what I'm trying to say. Without it I am a banshee. (I'm not depressed, so much as I am anxious to the point of losing my shit daily. Having a kid with Asperger's didn't help.)

Hi! My fiance just used this web site to find a doctor and thought they were awesome. He booked an appointment and the doctor's office called him immediately to tell him the office was closed that day (Tuesday after Labor Day). Well, the web site got wind of this and they called J to apologize profusely and told him they were sending him a $10 Amazon gift certificate. They only have psychiatrists on there, but that may be a start? As someone who has had anxiety since I was young (parents always had to pick me up when I "spent the night" at friends' houses, throwing up on the metro for no reason at all), I often find myself falling into a depression when I get overwhelmed by life. Often, it takes the form of obsessing over negative outcomes and it often happens right after the overwhelming thing is done. It's like I used all my positive energy on accomplishing the stressful thing and now I can break down. BUT I have received excellent treatment and have learned how to recognize and manage it. This is all to say while it seems daunting right now, when you walk out of that dr's or therapist's office, you are going to feel like you can breathe for the first time in a long time. You'll be very glad you did it!

My place: Vermont. But only if it was summer in Vermont the entire year.

and the web site is: http://www.zocdoc.com/

I always do that! :)

I would join your flylady alternative! No testimonials, no cleaning products for sale..

Where I would be if reality were no object: one of those extremely pricey post-and-beam 2-walls-made-of-glass mountaintop Colorado showpiece homes. I grew up in a home gifted with kind of experimental 60's architecture and I'm fine with soaring white spaces.

Alexis M, Island Beach State Park in NJ is heaven! I am happiest and calmest near or in the water, whether ocean, lake or pool--had planned to make the two-drive yesterday or today and play in the waves, but Hurricane Earl put a squash to that.
I agree that Julia would love Wales. It's like taking a walk in herbal wrap, with cool breezes, in a magic zone.
The LL Bean bag sounds like a good start. I get very excited by new plastic bins and containers for organizing, but that's an expense. Can't Caroline and Edward be trained to help sort and put away toys? Could be made fun? Have you read the novel, "Sophie's World?" Read or read the part towards the end of chapter 11, Aristotle, on cleaning up a closet. Inspiring even if you hate philosophy.

sorry, "read or reread..."

I like tropical warm and ocean. A friend just moved to St. Croix and I am insanely jealous! Bermuda is my favorite place on the planet, but I'd settle for the Outer Banks of North Caroline (sans hurricanes, please).

A big city somewhere. Maybe Europe. But in a cute neighborhood. I'd have a flat with a ton of light and a view of something. It'd be noisy when the windows are open, quiet when they're closed. I could be in the middle of it all or alone in my space. I'd have a tiny kitchen and a small fridge filled mostly with mustards and pickles and drinks. I'd shop in an outdoor market or find a neighborhood pub. I'd walk mostly, and own a scooter/moped but not a car. I'd have an outdoor space with the world's smallest pool (I love to float).

Weather 10 degrees - 80 degrees. Anything but windy.

Perhaps I am depressed, too, being two weeks from giving birth to number one with all the attendant anxieties that brings (what my husband calls "big picture stuff"), but we JUST bought our first house four months ago, and I am already fantasizing about leaving it. It is a very lovely house in the SoCal suburbs with a good-sized yard and beautiful hardwood floors and I find it depressingly staid. And flat. I want to live, at the very least, in *hilly* suburbia, which is plentiful around here, but also way more expensive, because apparently everyone else wants to live there, too. Could I convince my husband to make an hour and half commute (ahem ... each way), I would move to a little mountain town, where houses are cabin-like, with high ceilings and large windows and upstairs decks from which you can see the hills while enjoying your morning coffee. Lots are measure in half acres, not feet, and schools are wee. Occasional snow in the winter, but nothing unending, sunny but not too hot in the summer. And I could have chickens. I realize that romanticizing middle-of-nowhere living is a common trap, but I actually grew up in the middle of nowhere, and I want to go back, so ...

If that's not possible, I'd at least like to migrate to the Bay Area. But again, I might be depressed also. I also believe happiness comes from setting goals and achieving them, and my last goal was to buy a house (check) and have a baby with my husband (almost check). So, I'm in a very "what's next" mood, and "move to dream neighborhood" is on the bucket list, I guess.

I wish I could get Flylady light. I get the emails, but the testimonials just discourage me rather than encourage - all these people whose families get with the system after 2 days. She says to start slow, but then throws all these other tasks and zones at you. I want the starter version - I think I would need at least a year on just the basics. I totally agree on how does vacuuming the middles help when I have all this cat hair and dust bunnies around the edges!

Perfect location - I don't know where, but somewhere where there is plenty of spring and fall and not so much deep winter or summer. Near a lake would be good and nice breezes.

Switzerland. :)

I come to this blog because you make me laugh, but curiously I also always leave comforted by you and your readers that I am not alone in my oddities.

"An extrovert is someone who gets their energy from social interaction and an introvert is someone who can only restore theirs when they are alone." You have NO idea how that alleviates the guilt I have always felt because that is so. I love, crave, need to be alone. I am sure in some past life I was a hermit. Yes of course, I also love to be with my family and friends. Until now, I did not understand that I needed the alone time to better enjoy the company time.

Wow. That right there? You coulda charged $250/hr for therapy and I've have called it money well spent. I also went batfuckcrazy during the baby to pre-school years.

All these years I've read and enjoyed your blog, I never cease to be amazed at your ability to unpeel and articulate the fundamentals of life. Sadly, suffering from OCD and depression did affect me when I wisely took out loads of life insurance on myself years ago via astronomical premiums. I have 2 congenital heart defects (that were obvious) my entire life via numerous EKGs but took a specialist and an SVT and having to have my heart stopped and restarted while 6 months pregnant with my twins to get me the decline stamp on ever getting more life insurance. I am 35 - I will never be eligible for more.....that said I have all those same worries about us losing our health insurance (my husband has taught 12 years so we have always had tremendous health insurance). I am also convinced that, thanks to heart defects #1 and #2, I may drop dead at any minute and he, too, might marry someone with far better measurements than me :) Ahhhhhh, I am not alone. That said, I am glad you are going to the doctor. Be advised that anxiety meds and antidepressants take a while to work - and some make things worse rather than better - so be prepared for a (worthy) process.

Another introvert who prefers cool climates, lush shades of green, misty rain, and sea shores here. I live in Cleveland, which does have gray skies alot. I love Maine and dream of life on an island. When visiting Ireland, I felt so at home in Galway, like I had lived there all my life. My niece researched my family genology for my parents and she tells me 85% of my ancestry is Scots, Irish, and Welsh. And a great-great grandmother emigrated from Galway. Almost makes me believe in reincarnation.

Oh, one more thought ... we recently bought a camper and the family we bought it from suggested something they found handy were good walkie talkies; we got Midland x-tra talk ones. In an isolated spot with family members wandering off in different directions they mean the difference between being, well, alone and (potentially) helpless or being able to summon the hubster back to the camper because ... whatever ... has just happened (OK technically in our case they mean he can summon me back, or I can summon him out to me on the trail where no joke I fell and broke my shoulder but didn't actually need the walkie talkies then because my mom was with me but you get the idea). Oh and the kids will love them though perhaps Steve's already secured them using that Cabela's bible of his. Anyway, better living through technology, really, they're handy.

I know exactly what you mean about the every-minute-ness of children, and much as I love my own kids, it is hell for an introvert. Add to that my first son's inability to nap any way other than ON ME, and the opening years of parenting were ecstacy blended with despair. I got a lot of reading done while he slept in my arms--thank you, Anthony Trollope, for the many hours of pleasure--but it nearly drove me crazy. That I never wrote thank you notes for baby gifts and have no lovingly assembled scrapbooks attests to the fact that my moments of "me time" (despite a second son who is a two-hour daily napper) are spent on ... well ... ME.

In my own funk, I have been contemplating whether extroverts make better parents. Both my husband and I both NEED time to ourselves to recharge, and it just seems impossible to get it, and thus we are cranky to each other and cranky to the kids. The alternative is cramming in more alone time, but then feeling guilty the whole time about how much I need.

Heather, Throw out the guilt! To everyone in this thread, put your guilt on the curb, I'll drive by tomorrow, pick it up and recycle it into eco-friendly chocolate.

My darling son is an introvert and I am an extrovert of the highest degree. It took him awhile but he finally trained me during his toddler years to leave him alone for long periods of time.

This is not something we control about ourselves. I was chatting up strangers in the supermarket when I was two (& giving my parents heart attacks about where the hell I had run off too.) My son was giving strangers in the supermarket troubled looks and "leave me alone" body language at the same age from the safety of his shopping cart seat, which he only gave up at age four.

And here's the real plus, when he gets the quiet he needs, he truly enjoys other people and does beautifully in social situations. When I get the interaction I need, then i do beautifully with my alone time.

As they say, put the oxygen mask on yourself, THEN help your child.

OH MY HOLY GOD,
'GingerB'
I wish we lived closer. I wish I could help you, be of help to you somehow.
Sounds like you've had a really, REALLY hard several things come your way.
I'm wishing you well, good health for your little one.
gasp.

This is the best little commnitiy.

nice typo...
community.

I loved Guernsey Literary Society too. Glad you were able to read it. We lived in Colorado for a while, now in California. My husband and I both miss it like crazy. We may go back someday. I think the real difference the two of us have, is that he would live in a rural area of isolation and that would make me turn into Jack Nicholson from the Shining. I don't need to be urban, but at least suburban or small town. I hear you on the malaise. My girls are 8 and 10 now, but when they 1 and 3 or 2 and 4 I was in a deep funk. I loved them like crazy and was away from them working full time during the day, but 30 seconds on the toilet being the only time to yourself just does something to the psyche. Over the last few years though, I'm finding the moments to myself increasing and my happiness increasing too. But a couple of years ago I did "see someone" too. It helped a ton. Best of luck to you. The first step is recognizing that you can't necessarily figure it all out on your own. Hang in there.

Sometimes I shed a tear while driving through the flat green cornfields of Illinois because of the beauty of it, but it took me a long time to get there. When I first moved here 15 years ago I thought it was Ug-LEE.

Introverts need to be alone, alone to recharge. At least this one does. I can never get enough alone time staying home with 2 children. I constantly have a worn out & parched feeling from never getting to be alone. Paradoxically I never get enough friend time either.

Where would I like to live? In a mythical town where my family, my husband's family, and a good group of friends are all located. Barring that, Vancouver BC.

Do you ever read Small Notebook? (smallnotebook.org)

Her Housekeeping section might inspire you. I like her blog a lot, though I'm not nearly so organized and neat.

My husband's variation of the introvert/extrovert thing is that introverts get their energy renewed by being alone and extroverts get their energy by sucking it out of introverts. Guess which one we both are?

I don't even know where my perfect place to live is anymore. I love Colorado but we don't utilize the mountains enough and I miss living near water, any kind of water other than man made lakes and reservoirs, which only do in a pinch. I hate the blazing hot sun here in summer but LOVE it today where it's now a sunny 75 degrees. I don't mind cold , snow etc. but it's the day after day gray of the northeast, where I grew up, that gets to me, snow with sun is better. But I do like the occasional rainy day to break it up. I just remember the frigid damp cold of Philly and NY in winter and how depressed and angry people were. The sun does help and people out here have a better attitude generally, I'm sorry, but it's true. Romantically I love the northeast coast, Maine, Cape Cod etc where we used to vacation when I was a kid, but , unless you live on it, or near the beach, it's not so romantic. And, I could never in a million years get my husband to move back there. He wants the southeast but unless we could afford a beach house, or at least close to the beach, it's just hot and sticky and that's one thing I cannot handle. Ideally, well off enough to have have 3 houses Colorado, South Carolina and somewhere in the woods in the northeast or on the coast.

Hope "seeing someone" helps. Like you, at one time I feared if I went to see a professional I would be forever deemed "suicidal" by a future insurer (although I just had bad anxiety, I was never on the brink of suicide). Nevertheless, after my husband died and I became briefly, hysterically, anxious (I was convinced I had both HIV and breast cancer in spite of having no breast lumps, history, genetic link or pain, yet I did so many self breast exams I started lactating even though it was years since I had nursed a baby. The HIV thing was even weirder as I had tested negative quite recently but was convinced they must have mixed up my results. It was a bad time) I went to see someone, went on a whole mess of medications (though really only two, it seemed like a lot), and eight-ten months later figured myself (mostly) cured. Stopped seeing 'someone', went off my anxiety and sleep medication, and lived in terror for the day I might have to get private insurance.

Sure enough, several years later, I found myself applying for private insurance due to leaving my job to take care of my new baby. I had to admit that some years previously I had been diagnosed with Anxiety and I had taken two medications to help treat it. I can't speak for everyone, but as it was my only medical record blemish, they approved me for a low rate about six seconds later (okay three or four days).
***
I also tried FlyLady and couldn't get past the 7000 daily emails. I just wanted my assignment and that is it. Just tell me to clean all my kitchen surfaces and be done with it. Christ.
***
My dream place is hilly (not mountainous) and green, green, green. I like at least SOME deciduous trees (though I like pines and redwoods well enough), mellow, trickling creeks, sheep grazing, barns in disrepair. Basically Mendocino.

Cipralex and weekly anxiety counselling not of the behaviour modification, but of the acceptance variety has quite honestly changed my life. Only reason my doctoral thesis is nearly finished.

I am easier to live with and I ENJOY things now...never understood that I didn't really before.

Persevere...best gift you can give yourself, your kids and your marriage.

Wait, it's NOT normal to be constantly on alert for disaster? Well, shit. That explains a lot.

Alas, I am also afraid of the effects of mental health care on my permanent record, insurability, etc. It's a conundrum.

I like Kathleen's comments. I find them refreshing. Not sure why I felt the need to say that, but I did.

But about sending Steve to the farm alone with the kids, I don't think Julia would enjoy that. From how I understand it, the farm worries her with all of its not kid-friendly areas - pond, wells, creaky old barn, etc. So it would probably make her more anxious to send the kids there without her. At least that is how I am about the kids worries that I have - ie., other people taking my kids to the pool before my kids know how to swim....I just can't do it.

More freaky coincidences. You already know our deal re: Colorado. But you couldn't have known that we've moved heaven and earth more than once to vacation in Nova Scotia. We have close friends in Halifax who summer on Cape Breton (which helps). I often dream of that place. Both places. Wait, all three places! :)

Perhaps it is time to pull a Jo March and retire to that sunny room at the Ffarm with a stack of books and a barrel of apples. All people who are NOT you can stay at home... or at Grandma's...or anywhere, really.

As an introvert to the core, I love both your post and these comments. It's good to have your deepest feelings validated, especially the ones that seem strange to most.

We have a little cabin in Eastern WA-its very rugged out there with lots of snakes and scary type bugs. No water and the cabin is 120 sq feet. (We built it in a weekend with our baby taking turns on our backs!)
The first year of going there I hated, loathed, despised being there because-the moment the car stopped (6 hour drive) my husband ran out the door and got very involved in hooking up solar systems, checking out things, wandering around the 6 acres, while I wrangled our 2.5 year old and swore under my breath and then loudly to him. It was not fun. Finally I said we were going to have shared parenting time-which meant, I would watch our kid for a hour (with a timer!!) and then he would watch her for a hour and we would switch on and off ALL DAY LONG. He was fine with the plan until we implemented it and hey, wow, what do you know? Watching a toddler out here is...Hard! I sat in the car with the door locked and read alone, quietly for each of my hours. It was awesome. So that helped a lot. Someone else said that super good comment about kids seeing dads take care of kids for more than a few hours and how that has to be a learned thing-AMEN to that!!! Really! I needed SO MUCH to hear that so thank you. Hope you feel better, we all care & and are cheering you on.
Oh and crispy fall air, bright sunny days, soft raining evenings-we just moved to an Island outside of Seattle and it is truly heaven weather wise.

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