This That Other

Patrick's surgery, recovery and woe (or not) thereunto can be compartmentalized into neat sections: the actual mechanical fiddling, the swallowed blood and the reaction to anesthesia. Of the three, the surgery itself was the easiest in that he had absolutely no pain in his face. At all. Ever. He threw up blood for almost twenty-four hours and that sucked but nothing ever, you know, hurt. They also didn't pack anything into his sinuses, which I had been expecting and dreading. Instead they taped a piece of gauze under his nostrils (much like Madame Butterfly's nose flute) and instructed us to change it when it became saturated. Patrick hated this thing so much I finally decided it was easier to just surround him with towels and let him bleed all over the place -

oh. sorry. this post is not for the squeamish. I should have said that earlier -

bleed all over the place but after a few hours of lying more or less quietly he stopped oozing all together and he was good to go. I mean, except when he had to throw up again at which point all hell broke loose and everything started to bleed including my ears. 

All this was plenty gross and traumatic but the worst part, the absolute worst part, was what I can only conclude was Patrick's reaction to the anesthesia. It made him CRAZY and I don't mean that in a fun, let's all get naked and play beach volleyball kind of a way. More like borderline suicidal, had to be in physical contact with some part of me (who knew I was so reassuring,) and kept having panic attacks that caused him to struggle for breath (which in turn led to more vomiting) crazy. Partying like it was 1929 crazy.

Remind me, seriously, if Patrick ever has to have surgery again to tell them that he has major issues with anesthesia and to make sure they are actually looking me in the eye and listening to me when I say it.

I know I have made this sound awful but really, apart from the first twenty-four hours, Patrick's sinus surgery was a walk in the metaphoric park. Vastly easier than tonsils/adenoids, he felt better after a day and absolutely fine after two. And now he is Better. Rosier. More energetic. I had gotten accustomed to seeing him with dark circles and a slighty puffy face and now

just... healthier.

And yes that is a mushroom and no I do not know what kind and no I did not eat it but yes Steve has been whacking chunks off and sauteeing them for lunch because for some reason he thinks that looks like food.

Meanwhile Edward has been on Flonase for the past month in the hope that it would help to clear his lingering gunky ear fluid and I made an appointment for him at the same time I brought Patrick in for his post-op appointment. The post-op went really well (she even used the word "rock star" as she marveled at the cleanliness of his frequently neti-potted sinuses) and the pathology report came back clean (chronic sinusitis, nothing malignant, something something something not indicative of allergies.)

The ENT then turned to Edward and asked how the Flonase was going. I told her that I thought it was really working, that he seemed less full of muck and I was pretty sure both his hearing and speech were improving by the second. She said OK let's take a look and promptly found... an infected ear.

Oh for the love of...

Crumbs.

From ears she went to his adenoids and said that although they had scanned fine a month ago she was worried about them now. Not only could she see something that was troubling, she pointed out that she has been doing this for 23 years and just listening to him she could tell that this was a kid with some adenoid issues.

I said, "You mean the Jimmy Cagney voice thing he has going? The way he keeps scrubbing at his nose with his fist?"

She said, "The raspy hoarse breathing? Yes."

So Edward is getting tubes put into his perfect shell-like ears on the 21st (that would be two weeks from now) and while she is in there she is going to consider doing some adenoid redecorating as well.

He suspects nothing. Poor little duck.

Patrick started his new school yesterday. I don't know what exactly I was expecting to befall him in just one day but he came home in a buoyant mood and mentioned that he had made a friend so I guess the decision to move him has at least passed the first day test. It also only took me fifteen minutes to get him there, which is less than half of what I was driving last year so I am thrilled.

(PS Hey, here's a question for you. We will eventually need to replace our second car, partly due to its age and partly due to the fact that it is ridiculous for us to have two giant vehicles and partly due to the fact that a well-nourished deer collided with it while Steve was tooling around in Wisconsin lo these many months back. It runs, it just doesn't run particularly well and it costs a fortune at the pump. So we would like to get a replacement and for tax reasons we might want to buy the new one before the end of the year. For practical reasons I would like something smaller, more fuel efficient and pretty much anything that is not an SUV. Our current car has three rows of seats and we need that kind of room when the whole family is together for an extended drive but most of the time it is me driving just Patrick or only Caroline and Edward somewhere and I think we could totally make do with a sedan of some kind. Oooh, a hybrid. Do they make hybrids that fit five? Oh and is it true that hybrids don't go more than 62 mph? Because I think Steve would have an apoplexy if that were the case. 

What, if anything, do you know about cars, especially as it relates to families with three children, and a desire to spend less than $80 at the gas station?)

Comments

[Melissa]

I have seen our Toyota Prius ('04) get up to at least 85 mph. I'm sure my husband would drive it faster than that if I was not shrieking in his ear to slow down.

And depending on how narrow the twins' car seats are, you could probably fit 3 kids in the back seat. We have a booster seat and a Graco MyRide 65 in the back seat of ours, but if we had something more narrow than the Graco, I bet we could put 3 small bodies back there.

There is a 3rd generation Prius out now, but we are driving our current cars until they drop dead, so we haven't yet looked at it.

[Stephanie]

We love our 2004 Toyota Prius with white-hot burning passion. It never needs filling (well, feels that way) and it's been totally reliable. We cram three car seats in the back and transport our tribe that way, but we live downtown in an urban center and take short trips. The twins are 4.5, and the third kid is 3 and we will eventually need to up-size. But basically, we're waiting until there's a reasonably sized 5-seater that can accommodate all of us, and not be a technological and ecological step backwards. The Mazda5, magically made into a hybrid, would be ideal, but so far North American car makers are not getting the hint. It sucks. So we wait, and continue to squeeze. But I just wanted to say, as a second car, I can see no down-side to a hybrid. Oh! Except the Prius has kind of a low bottom. Which means that on snowy days, you have to make sure your driveway is well cleared or else you get easily stuck. I think you live in a snowy place so this may be an issue to consider. It goes plenty fast though - not a problem on highways.

[Kirsten]

Patrick looks so much healthier in that picture! Wonderful!
I drive a hybrid, but it's an suv, so no good advice there. But it has great pickup. I am not sure there is a great solution to this, but I learned after the purchase, that hybrids (or maybe just mine?) have double the parts of non-hybrids. Which means $$$$ when the warranty runs out.

[Nancy]

We fit our family of 5 into a Honda Accord without much trouble -- three boys in booster/carseats still (ages 2, 4, and 6)-- and it gets decent gas mileage.

[Jen]

I don't absolutely love my Honda Civic Hybrid, but we can fit all 5 of us into it, and the youngest is now 9. I think the older two are approximately the size of booster seats, as well! I wouldn't take a drive for fun like that, but going to get ice cream say, or out to dinner? Sure. And for dropping off two or one? Absolutely.

I'd love the Civic more if I did more highway driving. It's all very short trip stuff that I do and it just isn't as fun as watching the mpg hover near 50 like it does when on the highway.

[Kaethe]

I follow the upper respiratory symptoms and treatments of your family with unseemly interest. We have been similarly afflicted, and still don't know what's causing it. I'm glad everyone is feeling better-ish.

[Jen]

And yes, I drive over 62. ;-D

[hydrogeek]

Toyota Avalon. I had two and loved them both until they should have died, then I sold them and somebody else kept driving them. Indestructible, roomy, sedan-type gas mileage. I'm now a minivan driver. All hail the Toyota Sienna.

[Elizabeth]

I think Stephanie and I might be the same person. We love our Prius, thinking about a Mazdza5 when the time/need comes. The Prius gets incredible gas mileage and goes as fast as you want. Probably not super comfy for 5 for long car rides, but we did 1000 miles with two in Britax's and it was fine.

[Julie]

My Prius gets to at least 88 and doesn't feel like it's going to explode or anything. Mine is a 2005 model but I think the current model is pretty much the same. They are roomier than you think, but I'd recommend measuring just to be certain about carseats and whatnot. Maybe show up at the dealership with the carseats and do a test drive! Mine fits a four year old w/ car seat and a basset hound just fine.

[Gina]

We've gotten our Prius up to 100 mph. Not on a regular basis, but just saying that it can be done. We have a 2006 model and we love it. It has never had a single maintenance issue - ever and I regularly get 45 mpg around town. The trunk is quite roomy too.

It fits our family of soon to be 5 just fine. We have three carseats in the back. A small convertible in the middle (for the new baby) and two sunshine radians - the narrowest 5 point harnessed seats on the market (for a 2.5 year old and an almost 5 year old). I am assuming Patrick doesn't need a carseat anymore so I think a Prius would work out well for you with two of the Radian seats.

[ksmaybe]

I drive a CR-V. Yes, it's an SUV, but a small one. Costs me around $40-50 at the pump. 108k miles and still chugging. Use Radian seats for the twinks and you'd be able to haul all 3 kids when you needed too.

That does look like a much healthier Patrick!

[Catherine]

can't answer the hybrid bit but I drive a Mazda5 and LOVE it, pinky puff heart love it. It has a 3rd row and sliding doors. But I get the gas mileage of a car, not a van. I have a friend that just got the Chevy Cruze and they get high 40s in it. I don't know the back-seat situation there tho. That bump in the middle is nice when you're older and want your space but not so good when you have 3 butts to get in the car.

[Amanda P.]

We just bought an Outback - surprisingly roomy, lots of storage, and (so far) good gas mileage (30 mpg on a combined 4 days around town, long trip with 1 hour of "stuck in not moving traffic"). Also, it's all wheel drive, so snow and rain not as much of an issue.

Also, although still an SUV, Toyota Highlander comes as a hybrid - still not great gas mileage, but better than non-hybrids, and they've been around a while, so used are possible to find.

We also liked the Mazda 9 when shopping, but the 3rd row is only good for people with short legs. :)

If you're planning on new, buy soon, because the 2012's are on their way in the next couple of weeks, and then you have to pay the new (higher) prices, or not necessarily get what you want on the car.

[Lee]

I love my Camry Hybrid! I see someone mentioned the Mazda5...I know that car is a darling of Consumer Reports.

[Julie]

Oh! I can answer this, instead of sitting quietly while nearly 200 people post much more experienced answers ... :-) Hooray!

I had the same dilemma on finding the right car for my three (currently 7, 3.5, and 2.5) and I landed on the Ford Escape Hybrid. It's not as fuel-efficient as a Prius or the like, but it holds all three kids in a row in the backseat, with two in convertible car seats and one in a Graco TurboBooster. Plus I got it in 4WD which is important because of the winters we get. (Plus I have two dogs and they weren't going to fit in the back of a Prius without us chopping their legs off.)

I've been very happy with it and so has my mom -- she bought one at the same time. We're three+ years in and no significant repairs needed -- in fact nothing I've had to pay for except inspections and oil changes and so on.

Note: Do upgrade to the option with the AC outlet built in instead of the DC car charger -- so much more charging flexibility on the go, in a power outage, etc.

Good luck! SO happy about Patrick and best wishes to Edward. :-/

[Ginny]

Honda Accord. The regular kind. The batteries for hybrids are very bad for the environment. Our Accord gets great mileage, had fine acceleration, and would be plenty roomy for three kids.

[Kizz]

I live in Brooklyn and I'm not made of cash so I don't have a car but I come from New England and many of my people remain in the frozen north land. Via their preferences I'd immediately say the Outback. Even my uber rich bosses have Outbacks at their WY home. It's much smaller, much easier at the pump but also capable of dealing with the tough winter weather.

[fidi]

A mom of 3 (7yr and 5yr old twins) used to drive a Honda Accord, now she has a CR-V. Our Passat also fits 3 car seats pretty easily. I think any decent sized Sedan can fit 3 in the back row. Unless your childseats are HUGE (there are a few models...)

[Robyn]

So glad Patrick is looking so wonderful! I confess I was getting worried...

[Olivia]

I don't drive one myself, but I love the look of the Mazda5. It's weird because I hate the styles of all the mini-vans, but I think the mini-mini-van look of the Mazda is super cute, plus the sliding doors look awesome for tight spaces.

Glad Patrick is feeling better. And is that ONE mushroom he is holding? It looks like an alien brain.

[plantingoaks]

math time.

The difference in money spent on gas between a car that gets oh, 10 mpg and a car that gets 20 mpg is a lot more than the difference between a car that gets 30 mpg and a car that gets 40 mpg.

It's really counter-intuitive, but short of making graphs, my best explanation is that it's dumb of us to list fuel efficiency in miles per gallon instead of gallons per mile, which would make things clearer.

Anyway, upshot, hybrids are expensive. As long as you're avoiding those 10mpg suvs and the like, you'll often spend less overall on a cheaper regular car that gets respectable mileage than an expensive hybrid that gets exceptional mileage. (though, this may change a bit when you're talking about minivans and the like)

Assuming, of course, your motivation is cost. There are certainly other motivations (and I'm certainly not trying to talk you out of anything on principle), but if you are trying to save money, do the math on mpg vs. miles you'll put on the car vs. price of gas vs. price of car as a sanity check before you just assume the hybrid will always do better.

[Robyn]

Oh, and I really like the hatchback design of the Prius - we get our family of 4 around great in it, and a 3rd could sit in the middle back in a pinch. It's a fabulous grocery-getter. As someone mentioned, they are fairly low to the ground and so are not best-suited to deep snow - although ours gets around fine once on a plowed road.

I also like many of the Subaru models. Had a Impreza for years and it was virtually maintenance free...until I crashed it (airbags worked! yay!). They're all AWD as well.

[Alison]

Mazda5 is lovely. But you've got other people telling you that.

I just wanted to say that I have the EXACT same reaction to anesthesia, it's horrid. Atavan takes care of it, at least for me. Should you need to know.

[Julia]

Family car options suck in North America. The Toyota Verso is supposed to be great, and you can get that as a 7 seater. After flirting with the idea of an electric, my brother is going with the Verso. So jealous. It's almost reason enough to move to Europe.

[Melissa K.]

Throwing in my lot with the Mazda 5 trumpeters - it handles like a car, feels spacious from the inside, gets very reasonable gas mileage, and yes it should be modestly acknowledged that Consumer Reports is all about the Cinq. (When your car has a numeric name, foreign languages help keep it interesting.) Parks anywhere, sliding doors, and feels super spy speedy instead of Soccer Mom Suburban. Worth at least a test-drive, IMHO.

Patrick looks positively glowing next to that giant mutant truffle. Excellent stuff.

[Christa]

I don't get the hybrid thing from an MPG/cost to drive standpoint. If you look at the Civic so you can do apples to apples with a car that has a hybrid and non-hybrid version, it just doesn't pencil. The starting price of the non-hybrid is $15,805 and it gets 28/39 MPG. The Hybrid version gets 44/44 MPG and starts at $24,050. That's a difference of $8,245 you'd have to make up in gas savings before you broke even. Even if you only drove in the city, at 15,000 miles a year, the non-hybrid would take 536 gallons vs. 340 gallons in the hybrid. With gas prices at $3.50/gal, you'd save $686 per year with the hybrid, but it would take you 12 years to make up the difference in purchase price. This all gets worse if you had to borrow money to pay for the car in the first place.

And if people are buying them for the carbon footprint, keep in mind that the battery manufacture has a huge footprint to begin with. Check out this link for more info: http://www.wired.com/autopia/2008/05/the-ultimate-pr/

I am all for saving money, so I'll stick with my 1996 Civic that still gets 32 MPG overall.

From a practical level, I think the thing that drives me the most nuts is getting a little kid out of a car seat in a car. The bending over kills my back. I am not saying that in and of itself is enough to buy a minivan or an SUV, its just my main gripe when I am driving our Civic and I have our 4 year old with us. So, when I have the kids, I prefer to drive our Honda Odyssey. We get a respectable 22-24 MPG (not great but better than a truck or SUV) and it is so convenient.

Good luck.

[Kristi]

I've driven my Prius up to 95 on the fwy. Not sure how it is with snow though. It definitely wouldn't fit 5 with 2 car seats unless your car seats were small. Mine are Britax so... wouldn't fit.

The Chevy Volt is amazing and a lot more roomier.

[Meri]

It would probably be useful to know exactly what medications they used for the anesthesia - you can call the doctor's office or hospital, they ought to have it in his charts.

[C]

I have three car seats in the back of my Prius (which can do 90 if no one is watching). It took me a lot of hours to figure out how to get them in there, and I can offer you a tutorial, but I love the car.

[stacy]

My partner has a Pontiac Vibe (I hate driving so it's really not "ours") and it's great. Good mileage, a pretty roomy back seat, and a lot of storage in the hatch. They don't make them anymore, so you'd have to either buy used or get a Toyota Matrix, which is the same car with a slightly uglier (imho) back.

[Christa]

We bought a jetta tdi wagon in May (it's diesel) and I love it. It is so peppy and dun to drive as well as getting awesome gas mileage. I highly recommend.

[bward]

we have a mazda 5 for a family of 4. My brother has a mazda 5 for his family of 5. I LOVE my car. I have never actually cared much about my car but my Mazda 5 is fantastic! That said, if you have 3 kids in it all the time, you will have limited trunk space. If you are doing long trips or camping you might want to look into a box on top. If you do that, don't leave the roof racks on because it kills your gas mileage! And, did I mention that I LOVE my car?!

[elsimom]

I am following this conversation with interest because we also have three kids, and our two current cars are a 1996 Taurus with hail damage, and a 2007 Chrysler T&C Minivan. I love that minivan - BUT-now that the hubby is a SAHD, I am commuting alone. Which means - maybe we could get a sedan again when the Taurus goes OR maybe we want to be a two minivan family? Undetermined at this time.

I have heard that because of cold temps in MN, the benefits/savings of a hyrbrid are less than in warmer climes. I forget why - but the explanation made sense at the time.

Wow! Patrick looks like a whole new kid! That is awesome.

[snickollet]

Another Mazda5 owner here. It does everything I need it to do, and does it all reliably and well. I will say, though, that the third row of seating is pretty tight, even for a kid in a carseat, and if you are hauling three kids, two adults *and* a lot of stuff, you can get full up pretty quickly. But really, it's a great compromise between a sedan or wagon and a full-fledged SUV or minivan.

[Christine]

We have a Prius and Paul got a ticket going 90 a few months back. He would not have been able to out run the cop, though. Not a good getaway car.

[Chelsea]

Our Prius fit 2 large and one medium adult in the back on a semi-regular basis. Not comfortably, mind you, but I'm sure three small people would fit splendidly.

And I can't comment on the other hybrids out there, but ours went over 80 on a fairly regular basis, and over 100 on at least two occasions I am aware of, and she was perfectly happy to do so.

[jd]

Mini Cooper Clubman! Most fun I've ever had driving around. Gets 31 mpg in the city, 40 on the high way. Kids adore it. Can fit the pit bull in the way back. Huuuge sun roofs so it's light and airy inside. Makes our CR-V feel like a boring ole boat (which it is, although it's dependable, except for the time rats ate the wiring and shorted out the central computer, which wasn't the car's fault).

Only issues is that it's hard to get 3 in the back (though Patrick is nearing an age when he can move to the front seat, yes?), and that clearance is a little low (if you're driving on rutted dirt roads).

[jd]

Also, tubes. Youngest had two sets, and they're totally routine. I don't know that I even had time to finish an article before I was sitting in recovery with her.

[Jessica]

I think I'll just bookmark this post and come back when I need to buy a car! Tons of great comments.

[Joanne]

We have a 2010 VW golf TDI wagon, and I love it. Space to spare and it handles BEAUTIFULLY in snow and ice. Of course, I don't actually get to drive it very often, but my 2005 Honda CRV is off your list!

Hope Edward's tubes start everything draining!

[LB]

I thought at first glance that Patrick was holding a pile of bloody gauze and cotton balls. Relieved to know that it's just a mushroom.

[Abby]

I got a job offer today, and since I'll be commuting I'm thinking the same thing as you. (I also have an SUV, but a one-backseat kind.) Subarus are at the top of our list: Outback or ... the other cute one. Somebody help me out.

[Pictou]

I have a 2003 Civic Hybrid with 200,000 miles on it. It will go in excess of 85 mph. It still gets up to 54 mpg on highway, but driving around town I get more like 45. I love this little car and it's getting dinged and scratched but can't think of any other reason to buy another one.

There is a waiting list for buyers when I do decide to sell it. It's a good little car.

[Mary]

A lot of people are talking about cars, I am going to follow Meri and talk about anaesthesia.

Is it worth some kind of follow up consultation with the anaesthetist about his post-operative behaviour? The main thing you can get out of it is the official term if there is one for what he experienced. Then, instead of "my son is weird and depressed after anaesthesia" you can say "his last anaesthetist diagnosed him with Post-Anaesthetic Depressive Malaise, probably linked to [some drug]" (made-up term! don't trust ME!) and be more likely to be listened to.

[Sheridan]

I, too, thought Patrick was holding a pile of used gauze at first! That's some mushroom!

No advice on the car, I drive a V8 Volvo XC90 and am surely going to hell for my carbon footprint.

I am interested in the lack of dark shadows under Patrick's eyes now. Did anyone give you a reason for them?

[Jennifer]

Sounds like I will be a dissenter among Mazda5 lovers, but I have one (have for 6 years, since they came out) and it drives me bonkers. It fits four comfortably, period. If you want anyone of any size (i.e., Patrick or you) in the third row of seating, forget it. And heaven forbid you should want six people in it. The third row is teeny and no one with any legs can fit in it. I dream of a minivan these days so that we can all go places together. My family of 5 (kids are 14, 3.5 and 1) drives in two cars to get places because it is so hard to squeeze in and out of that darn third row (because two car seats in the second row pretty much means you have to climb into the third row from the back end). And if you do manage to put people in the third row, they better not have things like backpacks or diaper bags, or you know, stuff. Because it doesn't fit. I am so over my Mazda5 and coveting a minivan at the moment--space, I need more space! But it was certainly good enough until baby #3 came along. It worked just fine if you could have one car-seat-free seat to climb into the back row more easily.

I will say it's nice for hauling stuff--all the seats fold down so nicely (again, car seat free) and you can fit a surprising amount of stuff in there with no people. But the gas mileage is nothing compared to a Honda or a Toyota. But it also has a really low clearance, so again, probably that would be an issue with snow...

Sorry to be a negative Nelly about the car but I thought throw in my two cents.

[Andrea]

I have no advice about cars - but anesthesia reactions abound here at our house. If he had Versed before surgery my assumption would be Versed was the cause of all the craziness. Versed is an amnesiac given to patients to make them mellow and compliant before surgery (as well as, obviously, to make them forget any trauma). I have a sister-in-law that when she would wake up from surgery woke up with fists flying and the foulest of foul language that she would never otherwise use. Any surgery we go to I just ask to skip it.

[Deb]

Hi Julia! I'm sorry I don't have any brilliant advice about your car issue, but I do have genuine concerns about Patrick's issue with general anesthesia. Please let me explain...
My middle daughter, now age 33, needed dental surgery at age 6. I took her to a highly rated pediatric dentist here in the Chicago area- on staff a dental school yada yada. This was one jazzy dental office. Kids were taken back without parents. It was supposed to be a very simple procedure...she needed 4 teeth pulled.
Within 15 minutes, the paramedics arrived, and took my daughter to the hospital.
She had a reaction, which was suspected to be "Malignant Hyperthermia". Body temp shoots up to 105+, muscle spasms, breathing issues...it was incredibly frightening. She came thru ok...but it was easily 3 or 4 days before she was herself again. Unfortunately, the only way to truly diagnose this is with a muscle biopsy, which is done at major medical centers.
My daughter Kim's biopsy was positive. She now wears a medic alert bracelet. There are only a few anesthetics that cause this life threatening issue. She has since then had other surgeries, with the same reactions as Patrick. Vomiting for a good 24 hours, weird behavior...surgery is always a dread.
I'm not suggesting that Patrick has this, as it is very rare.But is certainly worth mentioning to your doc.
If you want more info, please email me.
Your kids are beautiful!!
DEb

[Rose]

Glad Patrick's surgery was so successful and he is healthy! And that school's off to a good start. Hope Edward's surgery goes as well and he doesn't react to the anesthesia too.

We love our Ford Focus wagon. We've had it for over 7 years and it's worked great. Fits three kids, two in carseats, one in a booster, and still loads of room in the trunk. Decent gas mileage, too, and one of the cheapest wagons we looked at.

I had a friend with a Mazda 5 and I'll agree with the last person who mentioned it -- if you fill it with people, there's no room for stuff. Also, the back row is practically right up against the back window, and my friend was always concerned about the safety of the kid back there if she was rear-ended.