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January 21, 2013

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I think some whacko took advice of offering a new food to a baby multiple times and upped the ante with preschooled aged children without every really doing an experiment him/herself. It is true that BABIES often need to be offered the same food on multiple occassions, but this is because babies in general are getting used to the idea of taste and texture. For a preschooler or older child it may be the case that you should offer a food multiple times if it is refused and encourage a taste test, but once they've tried something and decided they truly don't like it, I'm all for letting it go. I mean heck, you can put brusselsprouts on my plate every day and I'm not gonna eat them because I know that to me they taste gross. Introducing foods again after a few weeks or months, or offering them each time they're served is one thing, but if a kiddo truly doesn't like a food I don't see what the point of torturing them with it really is.

I completely agree about the children-eat-what-they-eat thing. It's a complete mystery and no amount of exposure to food X is the magic number.

I also remember my dismay at the end of a short round of speech therapy for one of my kids when I was told that "He can make the sound just fine, so you just need to correct him whenever he does it wrong." Nagging? Really? That's the secret method? And I don't think I ever nagged the way I was supposed to, but eventually he started pronouncing the sound in question properly. So: I'm happy Edward spared you the course of therapy on the L's.

Re: your PPS. Yes. Yes, they do.

People like to compliment us all the time on our very adventurous eater, and I feel slightly impertinent for correcting them thusly. Yes, the child will eat any and all charcuterie. He will eat your sweetbreads with relish. Bone marrow? Yes, please. But hell, I ate brains and eggs at his age. He was born unpicky, as I was, and as much as I'd like to claim his taste buds as a parental victory, it's just the way he is, man.

I'm not a wizard. I got lucky on the eating front. I want to wrap the parents of picky eaters in a big ole hug and tell them, "It's not your fault, honey. S/he was born this way."

This lap loom came to our house as a gift and was hardly touched: http://www.amazon.com/Harrisville-Designs-Style-A-Laploom/dp/B00000IV3W

I think all the parts are still in the box. Free to a good home.

Does Patrick have a circular knitting loom?! SO fun and easy. You can shop for every color of yarn under the sun and pretty quickly make attractive and useful hats for the whole family. My 5 year old son asked Santa for knitting supplies and the little knitting kit he received included one of these and it's awesome!! He made a hat in 2 days with little help. The purple loom from Knifty Knitter on amazon is just the right size for older kids/average adults. (It will look very big but the material pulls together as you knit.) Buy thick yarn. He will love it!

when my kids were little, they each liked something different. One was meat only, one was no, never meat and one would eat anything you put on the plate.
They were all fed the same, they just had different tastes.
Funny that the meat only child is now a vegetarian. The never meat child is still picky and the eat anything boy will still eat anything.
They are all happy and healthy adults.
I think Patrick will LOVE making soap. It's a lot of chemistry kinda mixing and stirring and what not. The lye part is supervised, but otherwise I bet he will love it. Scents, no scents, colors, etc... Fun stuff!

Maybe he'd enjoy spool knitting? I really enjoyed it as a kid, partly because it seemed a little magical to see the cord emerging. And a bit magical that you just used a big safety pin as your tool.

When my son was little he used to say (among other speech issues), "woo" instead of "you." The speech therapist thought it was so damn cute that she didn't bother working on it with him because she said it would eventually resolve on its own. It did.

My daughter who eats everything balked at potatoes until she was 9 and had them in a very spicy samosa. Apparently that was her TSN turning point, because now she loves them in all their many variations.

My son eats eggs, bananas and grains willingly. Everything else is choked back dramatically or artfully covered with a napkin when he clears his plate.

Pinetree garden seeds (https://www.superseeds.com) sells soapmaking supplies and books. Patrick would probably have a lot of fun checking it out.

Oh I just love you, and wish there were a tactful way to show my sister-in-law this post. . .without waving it in her face and saying "See! The fact that your kids eat anything does not make you a genius mother, you just got lucky and got non-picky kids! It has nothing to do with your skill as a mother! And my one picky child doesn't have anything to do with my parenting skills either!" Ugh. She might be the only person I know who has four kids and all of them eat whatever she puts in front of them. Consequently she honestly has never experienced a child who refuses to eat x y and z, so she honestly, 100% believes that the rest of us who claim to have picky children are simply idiots who didn't do it right. Truly. There isn't the tiniest corner of her mind that thinks she just has kids who are easy about food. So I'm the idiot at every get-together having to negotiate with my kids about food, while she looks down her nose in scorn. Infuriating.

To quote you, where on earth did that come from? Guess I needed to vent!

My kids will refuse certain foods till the cows come home if Mom & Dad offer them ... BUT if Goofy on Micky Mouse Club has a baloney sandwich, they will move heaven and earth to get at a baloney sandwich (which had never, never crossed their palates before -- I had to go out and buy the baloney). Also if their "glamorous" cousin loves a certain food, they're right behind him. It's all in the emulation, apparently.

My 8-year-old has gone through two phases of being an ethical vegetarian - the first time at age three when he realized that meat didn't actually come FROM cows, etc. but WAS cows, etc., and the second time at age eight when his big sister regaled him with the horrors of a chicken truck with beakless chickens -- and has gone through a few trying periods when he suddenly proclaimed that he had actually "never" liked foods that used to be go-to favorites. His favorite food last week was brown rice and Indian lentils and I felt like I'd hit the gastronomic lottery. I made it again tonight and he ate it but said 'ehhh.' Sometimes he will eat everything or something particularly adventurous and I feel so lucky. I mean, eh for real! He likes food, some more than others. I started this post out with the intent of smugly claiming that my kid has a wide palate through no particular strategy or credit of my own, but I'm realizing that perhaps it is more accurate to say he regularly has a wide palate and regularly doesn't feel like eating whatever perfectly reasonable food is placed in front of him. So there's no point to this post. My kid -- like all kids -- eats what he eats. And thank you for writing.

People are always congratulating me on both how well Gwen travels and how widely she eats (or how well she eats and how widely she travels). I always try to explain how I don't think it's really anything I can take credit for, we're just extremely lucky. Certainly we're doing all the right things to encourage a kid who loves to eat everything, but if she didn't start out that way herself, she'd be a lot harder to encourage.

It is heart-warming to read how many fellow potato-haters there are. Still think they're nasty mealy disgusting things.

If you are looking for crafty gateway drugs... I LOVED the arnoldgrummer papermaking kits. I still have mine from when I was 12. I even used it to do a science fair project once documenting all the different things to make paper out of... cloth and other paper did a lot better than peas, carrots, and potatoes :) I know SHOCKING.

My 7yo will eat anything that the chef Heston Blumenthal has suggested. He ate a full tuna sushi roll with wasabi 'because Heston makes them'. And chicken livers. And capers. Etc. LOVE Heston. My son previously only ever ate baked beans. My daughter was the queen of olives, Thai noodles, green Thai curry...until she turned 5 (going on 15) and now will eat pasta. Bah!!!


We missed you...

Caroline would be a devastating teeny tiny ninja - you definitely wouldn't want to come across her on a dark night! And for a bit more gateway crafting, has Patrick tried candle making yet? It's similar to soap but less of an issue for the end user if you want to add trinkets!

My eldest son eats just like Caroline and would drink only water if we'd let him. My youngest eats like Edward (his favourite foods are broccoli and cucumbers). He also, at 6, still has to be encouraged to make 'l' sounds - he can, but it's forced and awkward for him.

If you're thinking cold process soapmaking ("from scratch") be forewarned that it uses caustic chemicals (lye), so you have to be *careful*. However, it's loads of fun and really quite easy. I'd recommend "Smart Soapmaking" by Anne Watson. She breaks it down (while still keeping it scienc-y) and makes it very approachable.

I have to say that the offering thing works...although I think it has more to do with their tastes changing with age. When my kids got to be around 11-12 all of a sudden salad wasn't a bad word anymore. My 16 year old now will eat a tomato or two. At 14 she decided she would try a hamburger and now likes them. You never know.

My daughter hasn't made soap, but one morning in the shower I found that she'd shoved a sewing needle most of the way into the bar of soap. So I think you are right to be wary...

My daughter won't eat Thai, but loves kimchee. She's 3. It has nothing to do with me - I'm just lucky, which I acknowledge EVERY SINGLE DAY. All you parents with picky eaters, just hang in there. One day, they'll be off at college eating only Lucky Charms and carrot shreds (or grilled ham and cheese sandwiches) and you can once again eat sushi. In the meantime, have an adult beverage.

Thank you! Yes. Children, food, that thing. Gah. My six-year-old has been living on peanut-butter sandwiches for two or three years now. He's quite healthy, but it's a pain when we travel and suddenly the bread is wrong and he doesn't want a sandwich. For three weeks.

Ha, that sounds like every dinner EVER at my house. What is particularly frustrating is that the gold star meals that all 5 people in this house will eat is never consistent. And yet my kids would inhale spinach and kale smoothies at the drop of a hat. Kids.

Same eating inconsistencies here, with kids at 12 and 14. I am hard-pressed to think of a meal that is appreciated by more than three out of four of us.

I'm with Bopper up yonder.^ I know my tastes changed with age when I was a kid. I'm seeing it in my kids, too. That's why I keep offering different stuff. My kids turned up their noses at Indian cashew curry the first 11 times, but the 12th time, they devoured it. Now they beg for it. Ditto chicken enchiladas. And pan-fried fish. Etc. There's no magic number, I say. I also say: never say never!

" I have also read that you have to put some foods in front of a kid as many as a dozen times before they fall upon the previously hated food like wee ravenous wolves, which is a total freaking lie concocted and perpetuated by people who lucked into eaters and mistook their good fortune for skill. "

AMEN.

Regarding the 'presenting food 10x': are you actually making the kids taste/chew/swallow the foods, or just putting it on their plate like oversized sprigs of parsley? I'm pretty sure it only works if they actually *eat* it ten times (or more). We make our almost-four-year-old take "two polite bites" of everything on his plate. Sadly, the almost-two is too young for such rules and lives solely on wheat toast, apples, and breastmilk.

Don't lose hope! A few years ago, my mother convinced my sister's boyfriend (who was about 25 and didn't eat anything green) to try broccoli for the first time. He admitted that it wasn't as bad as he'd been expecting, and has eaten it ever since.

And what about the myth that children will eat what they help cook? After raising two boys and teaching preschool for 20 years, I've worked with many enthusiastic kid chefs, but NEVER observed them eating something just because they cooked it. They are every bit as likely to say "No, thank you" to a food that they prepared as they are to any other dish that they don't want to eat.

Of my two children, the one who is now adopting previously-hated foods (I'm looking at you, tomatoes) is the one who I've never worried about in terms of food. She requests red Thai curry, chicken enchiladas, and tikka masala regularly (though not simultaneously).

Her brother on the other hand... his scope of acceptable foods is much more limited and seems to be slowly diminishing. Two months ago he liked broccoli and zucchini; now he has to be cajoled into eating it. Last summer he downed strawberries with gusto; now? Not so much. Plus with his egg allergy there's a bunch of stuff he can't eat.

It's not his fault though, he gets his pickiness from his father. And at least he'll still eat the mild yellow Thai curry with rice.

Oddly though, neither has ever liked mashed potatoes. I'd never even heard of a kid not liking mashed potatoes until I had these two.

Alyssa, I would quite happily pay you shipping and handling for that loom. I and my prek class would love it! If you see this and are interested, email me? alianoraATgmailDOTcom.

I read or heard somewhere (so it could be total bollocks, but it stuck with me anyway) that over a seven year span, people get an entirely new set of taste buds, so it's worthwhile to try things that you used to hate. Which...like I said, could be total bullpuckie, but I like the idea of it and think of it when I'm about to refuse a food I believe I dislike, yet haven't tried in a long time.

I recently discovered that I now like cucumbers! And in the same vein, my tolerance for sweets is so greatly diminished that I would be comfortable classifying it as a dislike. Fruit is fine, but everything else? Bleh.

Three kids - three different eaters. Same parents, same table, same dishes. Our pickiest has grown to eat many more things (there were days when she was two, that the only thing she ate from the daycare lunch was the fruit) and we've learned that she is a purist - she will eat many things plain - but if you add sauce, or make them into a sauce - she's out. My middle eats lots of things, but doesn't like most meat (it's a texture thing) and my youngest will eat nearly everything with gusto. For myself, I didn't eat olives until I was in my thirties, or stinky cheeses, and now I love them......go figure.

Seconding the recommendation of a Knifty Knitter. We have round AND we have straight - and the children have knit many a hat - the recommendation to use thick yarn is key. Sometimes we even use TWO strands of thick yarn (this is MN - hats must be warm to be worn). Also - there is a nearby peg loom maker who was at the Midwest Fiber Festival in November. Daisy Hill Handycrafts. My son got a small one and has been entranced by it - it seems like something Patrick would enjoy. Here are photos. I think right now you just email - there's no website. http://www.flickr.com/photos/lmrichter/

Happy crafting!

Ah. I've missed your words. And I truly enjoy how each of my children, like yours, has a decidely different palate. One is a fruit and veggie lover (Brussels sprouts mmmm) while the youngest will eat all the fruit but pretty much only wants broccoli as a veg (whereas he once enjoyed a loaded salad and he's only 3.)) The oldest girl, though? Rarely drinks straight water, her idea of a snack is white rice with butter. Or oatmeal. Or pie. Wait, is there cake left?

I'm reading Brenna's comment and thinking hmmm it's been HOW LONG since I had a bean other than string? Gotta be going on 20+ and you know what? Maybe I'll just...NOPE. NOT HAPNIN.

Oooh! It was me, it was ME!!

I'm so glad that Patrick is enjoying the pot-holder maker thingy!!

*Takes a stand and prepares to be shot with an arrow through the heart.*

Yes, yes, on the children will eat what they will eat. My almost 3 year old spent his first two years in an orphanage in China. So he has steadily gone from eating ANYTHING to having preferences, but we are pretty lucky that he'll eat salad, Asian foodstuffs, etc. etc. and is a healthy eater.

BUT, I wanted to say that kids will eat what they will eat...to a point. I also live in a a part of the country where a good segment of the population thinks that their child will only eat Chicken Nuggets and French Fries, not ever thinking that perhaps the child needs to know that chicken nuggets and french fries are not EVERY meal kind of food. They probably shouldn't be classified as foods, but as chemicals that taste as wonderful as unicorns and butterflies (mmm, I want some chik'n.)


So, yes, children will have preferences. But children also do need healthy choices and lots of options to have a hope in heck of having a handful of foods that they do like beyond crap.

Of course, some of our folks around here put Mt. Dew in baby bottles, so I'm not surrounded by the typical swath of the American population (I hope...)

Making soap from scratch is pretty labor intensive and the lye can be dangerous. Not just in Fight Club exaggerated way. I got a tiny bit of lye in my eye mixing a batch of goat milk soap (because I'm a dumbass who forgot to put on the protective goggles). I was wearing contact which protected most of my cornea but I have scarring in that eye, can't wear contacts anymore, and have a blind spot in that eye.

I'd suggest rebatching bases as the fist step up from melt and pour before jumping into mixing from scratch. Brambleberry is an excellent company with great products: http://www.brambleberry.com/Rebatch-Bases-C14.aspx

My daughter started pronouncing her l's all of a sudden and all by herself too, leading me to regret that I hadn't made at least one recording of her saying "yong yong time ago". I also failed to capture the "there's a good 'pot!" she would shout from the backseat as I drove around looking for a good place to park. Live in the moment, cuz the moment goes away way too fast, is a lesson learned and relearned for this, your fellow, helicopter mom.
A mom friend, during a playdate, introduced grapefruit to my daughter. I was much surprised to learn later: she loved it. I shyly asked, not wanting to accuse, "but you put sugar on it, right?" She exclaimed, offended, "No! She liked it all on her own!" Then she proceeded to do some accusing of her own and told me to leave LO at her house more often, she'll fatten her up in no time. So now grapefruit is one of the staples to be picked up from the grocery store. And she still loves it. Takes much time and much effort to put that cornucopia of goodness in front of them repeatedly. But, that's part of the job requirement, I guess. And also why it takes a village, right?

Ravens...
Grumble!

-A New England Fan

We have the same thing going on at our house and it is bittersweet. I mean, we've hauled the kid to speech therapy twice a week for 2 years, so yes it's good that he's progressing, but we all miss hearing him say "Dood" when you ask him how he's doing, and we miss hearing about the "No-man" in the yard and how you have to wear "No-pants" to play outside. My personal favorite (before he got the /s/ sound down pat) was his enthusiastic "Weet!" when something went well.

I have been known to let a child go hungry when she refuses to eat a meal that was RAVED about last week but now has become food-which-dare-not-speak-its-name. Not many meals ended early with "You may eat what's being served, or have an apple" before my kids would stop grousing and just eat already.

But I am fortunate that my kids wouldn't refuse to eat for more than one meal in a row. :) I've heard enough stories about multi-day battles-of-will to understand how that 'only chicken nugget and french fries' diet could crop up.

I'm in the market for some soy candles, as my make-them-at-home lady ... stopped. Perhaps Patrick would like to do those? She said hopefully?

I am a picky eater from way back and it KILLS me to see my daughter begin to wander down the same path. I hate this aspect of my ... what? personality? genetic makeup? but have been known to literally throw up when trying to force myself to eat things I don't like. I had an OT tell me one time that when she works with kids with sensory issues, sometimes the exercise is to simply touch the food with the tongue and that's all they can manage.

And I'm with Meg on the whole "if they helped cook it they will eat it" crapola. I actually quite like to cook with grownup ingredients and will happily sit down to my (figurative) chicken nuggets and fries while basking in the glow of the compliments on my shrimp and mushroom souffle (<-- not a real food, but you know).

My 7 year old called that thing that comes out the back of the car a "de-saust pipe" until very recently and I'm pretty sure he and his 8 1/2 year old sister still pack a soup-case when they spend the night at Grammy's house. I suspect I will cry when they stop.

I would like to punch, punch, kick the next person who blames me for the fact that my child is a picky eater. Placing potatoes in front of her 15 million times has never led to her actually ingesting any. She may like them, she may not, but the world will never know until she consents to put them into her mouth, which, to date, she has not. I admit that I could probably change that by offering her only potatoes meal after meal until she either starves or capitulates, but I'm just not that much of a control freak. And I can live with that.

I responded just recently someone else about using
yarn made from strips of T shirts. Never heard of this before, but
they were beautiful. And hey, you not only have old t-shirts, but the capability of dying them!

http://www.creativejewishmom.com/2010/06/weave-fun-summer-placemats-with-tshirt-yarn.html
http://mousechirpy-polkadotpineapple.blogspot.com/2008/03/tutorial-t-shirt-yarn.html

p.s. Sorry, I meant to specify WEAVING using strips of old, brightly colored T-shirts. My wired iMac mouse isn't working well and my my magic mouse isn't, either. So much for Wifi connections. Arrggh. But do look at the links. These fabulous. And you can use any kind of loom, even homemade cardboard, wraparound, with ordinary or crochet string for the verticals.

Argh! Why do you live in such a different country from me (i.e. not England)? I'd love to teach Patrick how to dye and spin wool, then make scarves and suchlike from the results.

You might want to consider introducing Patrick to a drop spindle so that he can make his own yarn for weaving. There's a bit of investment to do with the wool (although he would, of course, be able to dye it himself, thus setting his yarn up for some very interesting colouring), and it can take a while to master, plus it's very time-consuming, but it's great fun (for a given value of fun; I have spent many hours doing it, although I now prefer to use my spinning wheel). I made my own drop spindle from a piece of thin dowel with a small metal hook at the top, two small flat pieces of wool forming a cross, and a heavyish wooden ball at the bottom to hold it together and give it some weight. It was very easy indeed.

Also, I make soap from scratch (hot process and cold process method, although the hot one's a bit easier!); he could come along and join in. It's really very satisfying. Although it does require an awful lot of care, protective clothing and supervision, along with some knowledge of where things want to go wrong, and is not something to take on without careful thought. It's a pretty concentrated solution of caustic soda which you use, and can even cause problems with fumes when mixed indoors. (When mine boiled over outdoors, it left me with a lovely clean path.)

Actually, if you do want to help him to continue along the route of soap making, there's a good forum I used to enjoy using. It's British, meaning that it's not a good place for you to buy supplies, but there are an awful lot of creative, helpful people on there, doing very decorative melt and pour soaps, along with visually very impressive (and undoubtedly lovely to use) hot and cold process soaps. The forum is here: http://www.forum.fresholi.co.uk/

And if you do ever visit the UK and want to fit in some crafting with random English people, I would be delighted to oblige!

"... which is a total freaking lie concocted and perpetuated by people who lucked into eaters and mistook their good fortune for skill."

Best line EVER! I SO agree!

This is unrelated to your post and the subsequent comments (umm... and really you might want to travel to England just to have Patrick craft with Abi... how fabulous.)

Anyway, heard a story on PRI's The World, and wanted to call you immediately and then, right, do not really *know* you... which speaks to my lacking grasp on reality. But still, here we are... So, feet back on terra firma, I wonder if you had heard about this videoish / comic bookish thing for Caroline: Dim Sum Warriors. I haven't so much as googled it but the PRI story intrigued me and made me think "Caroline!"

Tree Town Gal, I heard that story on the radio last night, too! And yes: Caroline! She. Would. Love. It.

My brother is in his late 20s and still doesn't say his Ls, so I am understandably concerned about helping my kiddos overcome their particular pronunciation difficulties. They're only 2.5, so I've got a long time before I *actually* become concerned, but still. I will be vigilant myself and hope it resolves itself. My parents felt no need whatsoever to seek professional help with my brother, and I still wonder why. I suppose since I am outside of their particular parent-child relationship, there may have been reasons I'm not privy to, but regardless, it always makes me worry when I hear one of the twinsies saying yeh-woh instead of yellow (of course the other one says "lellow"--so one doesn't say "L"s, the other says too many...)

I just re-read my comment and I think I kind of sound like a jerk. I mean, it's not the worst thing in the world if your kid grows into an adult with a speech impediment, right? Jeez. My brother also happens to be a couple of months away from finishing his PhD in engineering, so it's obviously not been that much of an obstacle. Maybe I should just chill and quit borrowing trouble for now...

So, the links I provided for T-shirt yarn weaving had crummy looking examples. Here is a much nicer example:

http://weavolution.com/project/memphisweaver/rep-weave-hobo-bag-woven-t-shirt-strips

(Sorry for multiple posts...)

Ravens...
Grumble....

Rabidly non-football fan living in Raven-obssessed Baltimore

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